X5 vs M3

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stefd

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X5 vs M3
« on: 6 Apr 2019, 12:14 am »
Hi,
I know X5 is not out yet and not many people have listened to them just yet.

I am on the fence between M3 TM and X5 . I am planning to buy either  300W mono block amps or a stereo one with 300+wpc .

With that much power, I am curious if the bass would overwhelm the rest with the X5  or does it have the same balance as M3 ?

Also, anyone with M3 in the SF bay area, more specifically south bay that would be willing to give a quick demo?
Thanks
Stephane



JackD

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Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #1 on: 6 Apr 2019, 01:28 am »
You won't need either of those amps with the X5 as you will only be driving the mid-range and the tweeter.  With the M3TM, which I own, the stereo amp is more than sufficient and mine are in a 22'x25'x10' room with a large opening they are facing into the kitchen area.  In that room the Nuprime ST-10, Mivera Purepower and the Nord One Up have all been more than enough. The bass in theory should be more powerful in the X5 with it's powered woofers. That's why we were telling you in the AVA circle to decide on the speaker first and then order the appropriate amp.

KLH007

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Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #2 on: 6 Apr 2019, 03:15 am »
Jack, Please give us your listening impressions of these 3 Class D amp driving your Spatials.

stefd

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Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #3 on: 6 Apr 2019, 04:52 am »
You won't need either of those amps with the X5 as you will only be driving the mid-range and the tweeter.  With the M3TM, which I own, the stereo amp is more than sufficient and mine are in a 22'x25'x10' room with a large opening they are facing into the kitchen area.  In that room the Nuprime ST-10, Mivera Purepower and the Nord One Up have all been more than enough. The bass in theory should be more powerful in the X5 with it's powered woofers. That's why we were telling you in the AVA circle to decide on the speaker first and then order the appropriate amp.

Jack,
Makes sense but since I haven't heard either speaker, I  feel like getting a more powerful amp(s) give me more flexibility if I don't end up with either after trial period. I guess I will have to listen to both after all :)








JackD

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Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #4 on: 6 Apr 2019, 05:20 am »
I think it would be a rare speaker and certainly not anything Clayton sells that the SET 400 won't power with ease.

Tyson

Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #5 on: 6 Apr 2019, 02:52 pm »
The beauty of a speaker like the X5 is it lets you spend more of your budget on quality watts and less on quantity of watts. 

Wind Chaser

Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #6 on: 6 Apr 2019, 03:07 pm »
You can never have too much power. My speakers can get buy on a few watts but that doesn't make them come alive like 200 watts. And don't buy into the myth / nonsense that tube watts are better than SS. I owned more tube amps (mostly SET) than SS, and quite frankly I'd never buy another tube amp again.  :green:

Wind Chaser

Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #7 on: 6 Apr 2019, 03:09 pm »
I  feel like getting a more powerful amp(s) give me more flexibility.

Absolutely.

Tyson

Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #8 on: 6 Apr 2019, 07:08 pm »
You can never have too much power. My speakers can get buy on a few watts but that doesn't make them come alive like 200 watts. And don't buy into the myth / nonsense that tube watts are better than SS. I owned more tube amps (mostly SET) than SS, and quite frankly I'd never buy another tube amp again.  :green:

Thats fine, more for me :thumb:

stefd

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Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #9 on: 6 Apr 2019, 08:18 pm »
You can never have too much power. My speakers can get buy on a few watts but that doesn't make them come alive like 200 watts. And don't buy into the myth / nonsense that tube watts are better than SS. I owned more tube amps (mostly SET) than SS, and quite frankly I'd never buy another tube amp again.  :green:

I am planning to audition SS amp(s) + tube preamp. Hoping to get the best of both worlds.

DavidS

Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #10 on: 6 Apr 2019, 09:29 pm »
In my case I have both Don Sachs Kootenay amp (I think about 70 watts) and Mivera Purepower SE (Class D and 1000ish watts).  Clearly in my system the Kootenay amp has a better grip of my M3 Turbo S than the multi watt class D amp.  Not really close which amp the Spatials and I like better although both also with a Sachs preamp so there may be some kind of gain synergy there.  Keeping the Class D for summer when it gets hot.

Intrigued by the new speakers though and looking forward to more discussion and reports.

GregC

Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #11 on: 6 Apr 2019, 09:38 pm »
When I read title X5 vs M3 I thought it may be a discussion about BMW vehicles and thought to myself they both have very different purposes.

brj

Re: X5 vs M3
« Reply #12 on: 6 Apr 2019, 10:07 pm »
My impression has been that people tend to dramatically underestimate the amount of power needed to accurately produce dynamic peaks.  Quoted RMS power recommendations and nominal speaker impedance values don't help here as much as one might wish, and may actually mislead regarding what's sufficient.  To start with, look at not only the minimum impedance, but the phase angles.  One quick link that discusses the relationship and impact on required amplifier power:

For some more direct examples from an AC member with great measurement gear and the skills to use it, consider this post:

And the link he mentions in point (2) that documents some measurements obtained while using is very efficient speakers:

(I recall once that someone proposed a single variable incorporating the impact of both impedance and phase angle, but I can't find it or recall specifically the details of the math.  It would certainly be a useful simplification for those seeking to match amps and speakers if were even remotely accurate.)

To address the specific question made by the OP... having more power on tap won't in and of itself alter the frequency response, including the bass, of the connected speakers.  The speaker will draw what it needs up to the limit of what the amp can provide.  Of course, one may receive the impression of altered bass response between amps depending on the specifics of how the amps differ from each other and how they respectively mate with the speaker.  (Different damping factors/voltage slew rates, etc.)  But this isn't specific to the power rating of the amp.