Teac + Isobar = Taste of Battery?

albee · « **on:** 28 Jan 2005, 04:56 am »

This afternoon I received an Isobar 6 "Premium" surge suppressor that I scored from eBay for about 35% of the retail cost. I had been using my stock Teac (center channel board removed) for quite a while with an inexpensive AR suppressor with a 20dB rating. The Isobar has some pretty steep suppression dB's that increase as the frequencies climb.

Well, I hooked all my components to the Isobar and finished a movie before switching the cd player. When I did: WOW! My wiring is only seven years old but: WOW!

The warmth and wool I've complained about was shaved away. The upper midrange and treble became sparkly and airy. The overall sound was more evenly balanced top to bottom while the focus became sharper. At first, I thought it cost me some bass but I realized that it cleaned and tightened up the bottom end.

I know I sound hysterical, but all the talk about clean power is absolutely true with these chip/hybrid/digital amps. Also, audiophiles don't really get off on Isobar but my hospital-type unit has really done the trick.

I haven't plugged in the SI yet but will get around to it this weekend.

Question to battery guys: Would a battery powered Tripath be even another quantum leap? The Isobar really lifted this stock Teac out of mediocrity.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 02:17 pm »

Can you post a link to the exact item? I would like to research it, as I am happy with my two teacs, but I am aware that they like clean power.

Strangely, I don't hear any difference when I plug them into my dedicated line directly, or use my Oneac 2 amp conditioner. Same good sound, so perhaps I should leave well enough alone.

yeah, sure...

albee · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 02:48 pm »

mgcsxr: The Isobar I bought was from an individual not a regular eBay dealer--so there is no real link. You can look at them at Parts Express. They sell them for about half the retail price, around $56 or $57.

Have you thought your circuits can't be improved upon and that you are already getting the best you can? Apparently, that was not the case for me. It's like I have a different amp.

One of my next questions, hear me gang, is what would the audible differences be between suppression, line conditioner, and line transformer? I've heard some conditioners can stifle dynamics--any ideas?

Occam · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 03:06 pm »

Stifle is what ArchieBunker told Edith to do....
Saturate is what happens to inductive components with too much current through them.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 03:47 pm »

I understand what you mean albee, but I am not thinking that my AC cannot be improved on - I guess I am suggesting that with my Teacs, the Oneac does not make an audible difference - it works well on my transport, and I intend to plug my preamp into it, but the teacs don't respond to it.

I know that lcrim is NUTS for the Transcendent kit, but that runs $450 or so, and I get to put it together..., so I am (as always) on the lookout for things that might more economically take me in that direction - I choose my words carefully, I am not expecting a 10% investment to net the same improvement, but if I can get 50% of the improvement for 10% of the investment, well you have my attention anyway!

Thanks for the tip on the unit, I will do some research.

albee · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 04:55 pm »

Just to clarify, I plugged cd player, preamp, and Teac into the Isobar. So, it's all a cumulative effect. It's gotten me interested in a conditioner as a next step--it made me realize the Teac is a worthy amp and mods could be a nice touch.

lcrim · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 05:01 pm »

As Mark noted, I got the Transcendent Sound Balanced Power Supply Kit which can be found @ http://www.transcendentsound.com/power_supply.htm
The effect on my modded Teac/Tripath amp was incredibly positive. Just more of everything. There is a but. The switching power supply of the Teac or more to the point, its power chord needs to be isolated or it seems to feed the EMI back into everything ganged with it.
I plan on looking into the Exodus JR power source from DIYcable.com which can found @ http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=89_21&products_id=109
This unit has separate channels for different types of components. I could possible put it inline after the balanced power supply transformer and then get more utility from the Transcendent Sound unit. I have been told that the Equitech units include this separation feature but the TS unit was only $399 w/ shipping and an afternoon w/ a soldering iron. The Equitech or the BPT are both, by all reports, extraordinary units but also very costly. John Risch's website has plans for making your own balanced power supply but I felt it was beyond my abilities.
I was sceptical about power treatment too, and I am still not convinced of its benefits w/ A class components but w/ the Teac/Tripath, I can't express adequately what a huge improvement it is.
BTW, not affiliated w/ Transcendent Sound or DIYcable.com in any way.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 05:18 pm »

Hey albee,

I never bought or used a wall wart for the Sonic Impact (also Tripath-based) little amp and plugged it into my BPT conditioner, but the sealed lead acid battery was startling upgrade for it. You simply should try one for your SI.

My BPT has a lot of attention paid to making it as good an approximation as possible of pure, clean battery power and it really is of great benefit with my little JVC digi/hybrid receiver (more akin to the little Teac than, say, the Panny's or Sony in architecture). But, it's not as pure as battery power.

I know that Chris Hoff of BPT always used as his reference sealed lead acid batteries as his design goal in making his balanced power conditioners. I'm not sure he achieved it yet, even with his much lauded more expensive conditioners, but he's probably very close.

So, I don't know how much of a taste your getting of battery with the Isobar, but if it lifted the TEAC out of mediocrity, consider it a good purchase, overall. Digi receivers are so clean and have such high standards of resolution that they beg for the cleanest power you can provide them. I know there are nit-picks on their 'musicality', but little general disagreement that they have much better resolution than SS or tube designs of similar price.

Did you try ERS cloth on the inside/outside of that Isobar or mechanically isolating it on something squishy or points? Both help a bit. If it's a fixed cord on the Isobar, you might want to snip off the plug and wire in a nice hospital or 5266 plug to it...and/or wrapping the cord in ERS cloth, and putting a HighWire Power Wrap on it. All reasonably cheap tweaks that help control EM, RF interference and lower inductance on the way to the very AC-picky TEAC.

If the TEAC has a removeable cord(?), it might benefit greatly from a shielded cord. Nuthin' fancy, just good shielding (Kevin @ DIYAudio sells a find one that does the job) unless you want to put a $400 cord on a US$99 amp. Teehee - some do, I guess.

These little tweeks pay outsized benfits on digi receivers I've found.

Resolution for me is so important - something I always found wanting with SS or tube gear I've had. Musical is such a subjective term and feeling; resolution is more objective, and attainable now, or my taste.

Enjoy the ride

ToddSTS · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 11:20 pm »

As far as Balanced Power.....you can keep checking Audiogon for good deals on BPTs, Blue Circle Music Rings, and Exactpower models. I am currently waiting on the arrival of a BP-1 Ultra that I picked up for $400 to try out this Balanced Power thing. That's the price of the Transcendant (which I've also been eyeing) but its (I think) higher quality and I don't have to put it together. But you have to be fast on A-gon. I got lucky, or at least I think I did. I'll know for sure once it gets here.

Todd

Also, I noticed Wayne on the Bolder Cable Circle has a ~$400 balanced power product.

ryno · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jan 2005, 11:36 pm »

What's more important for a teac based system, ballanced power or isolation between components? I'm putting together a budget system for a bedroom and don't wan't to pay for both. So, a passive with isolation i.e. DIY cable JR filter, or a ballanced with everything pluged in to it. For now a cd player and the teac. Next is a preamp, CI audio passive or bottlehead tube kit.
Thanks Ryan

mcgsxr · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 12:07 am »

Ryan, I am not sure that there is an objective right answer to that question - In MY system, isolation is without a doubt more important - I have 2 dedicated lines, so I am able to keep the Teacs on one, and the preamp, and other goodies on the other.

As you likely have read, I am VERY happy with the sound of my Bolder Teac, and WR125 combo.

I have not had the ability to use balanced power, but I understand it is a great leap forward, by all accounts. IF I were assembling the system piecemeal, I would go isolation first, and balanced power second - but that is my bias, since I am able to isolate for free...

AphileEarlyAdopter · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 12:23 am »

Power conditioners - there are many and it is almost confusing which one to go with, even if you have a large budget. But I finally narrowed my choices to a balanced power conditioner and a Running Springs Audio Haley. I bought a Blue Circle Music Ring 1200 for $700. I later came across the Furman Power Factor Pro. Since I thought power factor correction might make a difference I bought this for $220. I put a VH Audio Flavor 2 power cord on the Furman, a used Empirical Audio Magnum Power cord on the balanced power conditioner. I then used a Sonic Horizon Daybreak on the Panny XR50.
Now, the sound is really really good, that I am very excited about. Mind you I am never excited that easily. I am the kind of guy who thinks something can be tweaked further.
The major change happened when I put the Empirical Power cord between the Furman and the balanced power conditioner. Also, I think the Furman takes sometime to break in. It is the addition of the Furman, I think which is making all the difference. I also feel it is this 'liquidity' that you have in spades when you use battery power. I think I might be getting really close to it.

ryno · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 01:07 am »

Hi Mark
Does dedicated lines mean isolated? The lines are still connected in the fuse box in the basement, and to every line in the house. I know nothing about power filtration, but I realize that it's important for these digital amps and for this system a budget is important too.
Also, I feel like I'm in your footsteps, right now I've got a teac powering WR125's. But, the ported boxes were too much bass in my almost square room. Sealed with an 8" peerless powered sub is very nice. There must be some room node that the ported boxes excite. I do plan on trying the tweeters when Kevin gets everything figured out. I will have go with a different preamp just so it's not totally the same as yours. This is a fun, experiment type of system so I might try the bottlehead. I've never had tubes so it should be fun.
thanks for all the great posts, Ryan

albee · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 01:32 am »

Ok, this is the one I snagged for a great price:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=104

mcgsxr · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 01:43 am »

Ryan, trust me, you are on a good path... if I do say so myself!

PM corwin, he has a Bottlehead, and is in BC - he might have some pointers for you, and I KNOW he wants to bend an ear to both the Teac, and the WR's.

As for your comments on isolation, I will leave it to those who know best about these things - I just know that the system sounds better the way it is, and plugging the Teacs into a Oneac conditioner does not change the sound at all.

BTW, I know that you want to keep your system in some way different, but I hear tremendous things about the Hagerman Clarinet linestage that is heading my way... just a heads up!

Oh, and your sub sets us apart - I run a 12 inch Nakamichi in a 4 foot box, ported to 23Hz - basement rooms are hard to pressurize with bass for this junkie!

I hear you about the abundance of bass that the ported WR's make, but who will believe us?

Dmason · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 03:06 am »

I, however, hear the word, "sealed." This, with two subs, could be KILLER, I suspect.

I have mine mounted in the sidewalls of my old TV, and they sound suprisingly good in this less-than-audiophool "implementation" I am beginning to think that they are very close overall to, dare I say, the Jordan 92, which happens to be in the same room as the old TV "design," and they keep time. I think two WR125's X 16Ohms, over and under, in something like the GM MLTL for the Jordans, and you'd really have something. They have a gutsy sound, and play with real conviction.

I guided AC member "thayerg" through the cool little pipe design, so hopefully there will be another success story coming "down the pipe," so to speak.

Mechanical isolation is almost as important as electrical, with Tripath amps, in my experience. I also found that wallpapering the interior of the Teac case with Reynolds Al foil made a nice difference, WRT RFI.

ryno · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 03:38 am »

Thanks for the heads-up on the tripplite. Looks like a good budget piece. Three filter banks, one for each, source, pre, and teac. If I want to try a ballanced power unit on the teac , I can add that later and plug it in to the tripplite.
This might be the ticket for me, thanks, Ryan

mcgsxr · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 03:24 pm »

Sure, for actual musical enjoyment a sealed sub is often the way to fly - I keep a 1.5 foot sealed box with a Fosgate 12 inch around too, for listening to 2 channel.

I was just quoting my silly movie sub, for overall SPL joy...

Good luck with the power toy, and keep us in the loop about how it works out.

corwin99 · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 08:09 pm »

A bit off-topic, but it was brought up.... I do have a Bottlehead foreplay, and would be happy to let Ryan hear it if he is in BC relatively close by. It is a bit of a Finnicky preamp... mine came with a bad tube from the get go and had me questioning my wiring and soldering for several weeks... along with a couple of wrong parts and i was charged immediately and told several times it would be shipped but it was delayed so much that it was shipped 4 weeks after my payment went through. I was a bit disappointed, but it is a very nice sounding preamp for the $. I like the sound enough to have purchased all new parts to build another one but with much better parts and chassis design.

I also used to have the CIAudio passive preamp that you are considering, but have sold that one as well.. it sounds good but having investigated passives lately i have found better sounding alternatives (to my ears).

I would definately be interested in hearing a Teac... see how it compares with the Sonic Impact that i've been having so much fun with.

ryno · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Jan 2005, 10:23 pm »

Thanks for the offer, but a January drive from Minnesota's a little to far. I've heard nothing but good about the foreplay, and bottlehead, sorry your experience wasn't great. Bottlehead is just coming out with a new forplay, said to be better, also priced a lot higher too.
Thanks again, Ryan