Passive crossovers for RS8

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 364 times.

rfprice

Passive crossovers for RS8
« on: 23 Mar 2019, 03:02 pm »
I would like to try adding a subwoofer to my system along with high-pass filters on my RS8 monitors. I'm reluctant to use an active crossover; anyway, my amp is an integrated with no LFE output. Does anyone have any experience they could share? Capacitors at the speaker terminals, for example? What value would you recommend? Any advice would be appreciated.

mick wolfe

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 647
Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #1 on: 23 Mar 2019, 06:33 pm »
I always run my mains full range fwiw. That said (and I'm not sure here), doesn't the Omega Deep Hemp 8 sub's plate amp allow you to do the high pass set-up you're trying to achieve? That would be my sub choice regardless, but it looks like it offers a high pass option.  Hopefully a few Deep Hemp owners will chime in and verify.

rfprice

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #2 on: 23 Mar 2019, 07:32 pm »
I always run my mains full range fwiw. That said (and I'm not sure here), doesn't the Omega Deep Hemp 8 sub's plate amp allow you to do the high pass set-up you're trying to achieve? That would be my sub choice regardless, but it looks like it offers a high pass option.  Hopefully a few Deep Hemp owners will chime in and verify.

I prefer to not run the mains from the subwoofer taps. I'd rather just run two cables from the amp.

rfprice

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #3 on: 24 Mar 2019, 05:13 pm »
On the other hand, that's always been my assumption. I'm wary of bisecting the signal between the amp and main L+R. It seems like a passive filter on the speaker would be the least disruptive. Is there a good argument to the contrary?

mick wolfe

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 647
Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #4 on: 24 Mar 2019, 05:29 pm »
I'd give Louis a call. You'll get an honest assessment. Again and in the meantime, hopefully some Deep Hemp users will chime in.

pstrisik

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 974
  • It ain't easy being an audiophile in Alaska!
Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #5 on: 24 Mar 2019, 06:20 pm »
IMO, it is counter to the whole design and advantages of single, full-range drivers to put any extra electronics in the path, especially in the speaker signal.  You are adding a capacitor at a minimum.  Active crossover (in the low level signal) is less damaging, but still sucks some life.  If I understand your meaning correctly, the passive hi-pass filter you mention is just half of a two-way crossover.  The effect on the sub would be eliminated (where it doesn't matter so much), but the same filtering for the mains would exist as a full xover.

I've been through it all.  I had a high quality active crossover from Marchand splitting the signal for awhile.  I've since gone without it and the results are much more clean and dynamic.  Subs will blend just fine with some tweaking if they have any flexibility in controls at all. 

My .02

......Pete

rfprice

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #6 on: 25 Mar 2019, 01:57 am »
IMO, it is counter to the whole design and advantages of single, full-range drivers to put any extra electronics in the path, especially in the speaker signal.  You are adding a capacitor at a minimum.  Active crossover (in the low level signal) is less damaging, but still sucks some life.  If I understand your meaning correctly, the passive hi-pass filter you mention is just half of a two-way crossover.  The effect on the sub would be eliminated (where it doesn't matter so much), but the same filtering for the mains would exist as a full xover.

I've been through it all.  I had a high quality active crossover from Marchand splitting the signal for awhile.  I've since gone without it and the results are much more clean and dynamic.  Subs will blend just fine with some tweaking if they have any flexibility in controls at all. 

My .02

......Pete

Pete, thanks for this. In truth, this has been my reservation also. I don't like the idea of putting anything in the signal path. This is why I don't like the daisy-chain method of amp to sub to speakers. But passive xo and even dsp are also interrupters. I do all of my listening at low levels. The amp is a SET integrated and I rarely turn the knob above 8 o'clock. I'd like to take pressure off the mains if I could, but it's not actually necessary in this listening space and I'm not convinced that today's technology is up to the task of doing it well.

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2447
Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #7 on: 25 Mar 2019, 04:07 am »
Given the high efficiency and very easy load your speakers present to most any good amp, and you state you listen at low levels, I'm not really sure what you're hoping to achieve with a crossover. Those speakers are likely using a fraction of a watt at typical levels, unless your listening room is cavernous and/or your listening chair is far away from the speakers. Neither seem to be the case. I would experiment with just running the speakers full range and blend the sub, as pstrisik says. If that doesn't work, only then would I look to "complicate" matters.
« Last Edit: 25 Mar 2019, 01:49 pm by RDavidson »

jMelvin

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #8 on: 25 Mar 2019, 12:26 pm »
I use a DeepHemp 8 with my Super 3i's and asked Louis about this when I ordered the sub. He told me his preference is to run 1 set of speaker cables to the 3i's, another set to the sub (using the same speaker tap), and set the crossover on the sub at 60. This way allows the 3i's to run a full signal (which naturally drops off) and the sub blends perfectly, doing it's thing below 60. Louis knows his product and his suggestion proved to be the best one to my ears. Give him a call. BTW, I use a Decware SE84UFO amp with it's measly 2 wpc. The sub made a huge difference to my listening pleasure.

sunnydaze

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #9 on: 25 Mar 2019, 04:34 pm »
Why not get get a sub with built-in high pass filter and try it both ways?  That is, high-pass your mains with sub handling the bottom, or running mains full range with sub supplementing the bottom.  That way you can listen however you prefer, with no additional cost outlay.  There are a few subs on the market that offer this flexibility.

My Gallo CLS-10 sub is one.   In theory you would think high-passing would damage the signal, but I can't detect it.  I haven't gone back and forth multiple times comparing, but I tend to prefer high-passing the mains.  To my ear, relieving them of LF duty sounds like a speaker upgrade.

Mains I've used this way are JM Reynaud Twins and a couple of Omega models.

mrvco

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #10 on: 26 Mar 2019, 12:08 am »
I tried using high-pass filters between my pre and amp to remove some of the low frequencies going to my Omegas and let my deepOmega 8 handle those frequencies.  It never sounded as good to my ears though as running them full range.  If I recall correctly, I got better results using the pre in/out and cross-over in the sub I had prior to the deepOmega, but I think everything still sounded better full-range.  Of course I'm not listening at decibel levels (<85db typically) where the Omegas are struggling.

sunnydaze

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #11 on: 26 Mar 2019, 01:04 am »
.......If I recall correctly, I got better results using the pre in/out and cross-over in the sub I had prior to the deepOmega, but I think everything still sounded better full-range........

Similar here, except I do it high level with speaker cables:  main amp into the sub inputs, then sub outputs into main speakers.  Between the sub's ins / outs is a built-in high-pass filter (passive, I assume) that delivers 100Hz and above to the main speakers.

Can't do the same with my sub's RCA low level inputs.  Can only choose the low-pass level into the sub.

mick wolfe

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 647
Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #12 on: 26 Mar 2019, 01:17 am »
I tried using high-pass filters between my pre and amp to remove some of the low frequencies going to my Omegas and let my deepOmega 8 handle those frequencies.  It never sounded as good to my ears though as running them full range.  If I recall correctly, I got better results using the pre in/out and cross-over in the sub I had prior to the deepOmega, but I think everything still sounded better full-range.  Of course I'm not listening at decibel levels (<85db typically) where the Omegas are struggling.

Also, I've wondered at times if not letting the mains run full range disrupts their overall tonal balance and voicing. Like you, my best result has always been running the mains full range with subs adding to the foundation.  If your amp has ample headroom and your mains ( drivers) are fairly robust, go full range.

rfprice

Re: Passive crossovers for RS8
« Reply #13 on: 26 Mar 2019, 02:27 am »
Also, I've wondered at times if not letting the mains run full range disrupts their overall tonal balance and voicing. Like you, my best result has always been running the mains full range with subs adding to the foundation.  If your amp has ample headroom and your mains ( drivers) are fairly robust, go full range.

My integrated is the Cary 300b, which is somewhat more powerful than others, 15w/channel. So there is headroom. I should leave everything as it is.