[denverdoc]

Have had a pair of 645v1's for what nearly 7 years now; these have outlived Dunlavy Sc-Iv's, Infinity Beta IRS, Theile CS 3.6 and any number of lesser speakers I don't care to mention. The Newfs have their problems and should be listened to at least 3 meters away, and the bass is sometimes very placement sensitive--more so than with some others i've owned, so be prepared to spend time here. As to the ultimate immediacy, believe the Maggies win here, but these pups are much more dynamic.

As to the digital option, John Meyers used to publish a newsletter, back in 1999 he was all over the Pannie PWM amp technology. My point is that he was one of the first high enders to sing their praises, and has my everlasting respect for sticking his nose out there. Runs a good firm,  available, truly one of the finer internet sales based companies around.

In part he catalysed my decision to buy a DEQX and go digital. Ended up buying the B&G 75 inch "ribbons" , but mostly because I could get a longer driver and somewhat lower xo than becasue of any issue with the transducer.
Enjoy!~
John

[Horizons]

I am really curious how a BG line array and a pair of subwoofers that can be high passed at like 250 hz would sound.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=135#neo

Well, I used the BG 520DX (50-inch BG ribbon with twin 6.5 inch midbass drivers) with biamped twin 12-inch subs. I really liked the BG ribbons but they sounded similar to the Newforms in that they were too thin for my tastes. This led me back to Maggies and the 1.6QR. Note that I am heavily biased in the direction of huge soundstage, WARM midbass, etc.  Neither the BGs or the Newform are bad speakers, they just aren't Maggies.  

[doug s.]

flo, from your thread on the vmps forum, i see ya went w/the rm30's.  based upon what everyone sez, i think you will be pleased.     too bad i couldn't interest you in my new, never-opened rm40 kit!     this is a project i took on that i now realize won't happen for a long while.  

keep us posted on your findings w/the rm30's...

regards,

doug s.

[Lord_Magnepan]

Of course i will  I dont really want to sell my Krell and the Jolida. What i have heard so far, is very promising that it will sound great with them. I am currently looking for a speaker/powercable solution (3powercables + spkr cables) for around 400$.

Any ideas?

[denverdoc]

Well, I used the BG 520DX (50-inch BG ribbon with twin 6.5 inch midbass drivers) with biamped twin 12-inch subs. I really liked the BG ribbons but they sounded similar to the Newforms in that they were too thin for my tastes. This led me back to Maggies and the 1.6QR. Note that I am heavily biased in the direction of huge soundstage, WARM midbass, etc. Neither the BGs or the Newform are bad speakers, they just aren't Maggies.

Perhaps the reason they sounded thin, has to do with the mismatch between a pair of mid bass drivers which roll off as a point source and the quasi line array behavior of the long ribbons, i.e spl falls off inversely with r instead of r^2. As to huge soundstage, can't imagine the smaller Mags even coming close to the huge soundstage the RD-75;s project. In fact it is so large, many consider it a liability and not a virtue. Anyway, this is what guided my thinking into using a line array of dipolar woofers to more accurately match the long ribbons behavior and having plenty of EQ power to get the relative levels right. So while I don't discount your observations, may have less to so with the driver than the implementation,
Cheers,
JRS

[Horizons]

Perhaps the reason they sounded thin, has to do with the mismatch between a pair of mid bass drivers which roll off as a point source and the quasi line array behavior of the long ribbons, i.e spl falls off inversely with r instead of r^2. As to huge soundstage, can't imagine the smaller Mags even coming close to the huge soundstage the RD-75;s project. In fact it is so large, many consider it a liability and not a virtue. Anyway, this is what guided my thinking into using a line array of dipolar woofers to ...

Interesting observation Denverdoc. I tried a digital EQ to tame the thinness and that didn't work either. Your solution of a line array of dipole woofers to mate with the BG ribbons sounds good but would not be cost-competitive with the Maggies.  I always suspected that a Maggie midbass planer coupled to a BG ribbon would really do it for me. But size and cost considerations got in the way of implementation.

[doug s.]

Of course i will  I dont really want to sell my Krell and the Jolida. What i have heard so far, is very promising that it will sound great with them. I am currently looking for a speaker/powercable solution (3powercables + spkr cables) for around 400$.

Any ideas?

hi florian,

i have never tried them, but i am intrigued by the comments of the speltz anti-cables being sold on a-gon (speaker cables).

for power cord, i wouldn't spend a fortune; there's plenty of quality cords for a smoewhat reasonable cost, imo...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablpowr&1111207629
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablpowr&1111818507
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ddcablpowr&1112361322&demo&3&4&
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablpowr&1112159506
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablpowr&1111320181
there's a plethora of reasonably price power cords like the above...  diycable.com also sells kits you can make yourself...

[denverdoc]

Horizions,

Curious, where were your xo points?

And your point about not being cost competitive is well taken. This is not a consideration (w/in reason that is, else I might try the new Ravens at 1750/per in a long line array (gulp)), like so many out there love the maggies at mod listen levels--only one problem: I seldom listen at moderate listen levels!  

[Florian]

Thanks for the replys guys. I got a very fair price on 3 Audioquest NRG-2 and Audioquest Slate BIWIRE cable that i will go for. Now all i need is a second set of Wireworld Solsice 5. Anyone know where i can find a set?

[Horizons]

Horizions,
Curious, where were your xo points?

The internal xover for the BG520DX was around 350 I believe. Not sure of the slopes. I let the BGs roll off on the bottom end naturally around 80 Hz or so. I crossed over my two, 12-inch subs at 80 Hz (24 db/octave). This system had great integration, superb low bass, stunning midrange transparancy but I always thought it was thin in the upper bass/lower midrange. I suspected some wrap-around cancellation effects at the lower end of the BG 50-inch ribbons range that is used in the rather small 7-inch baffle. I tried to Eq this away but that didn't really help.

Ravens - the one time I heard them I was blown away with how much the quality of the tweeter could alter the entire character of the speaker. They are simply incredible (as the price indicates).

[denverdoc]

Hi all

I am using B&G (Bohlender Graebener www.bgcorp.com) ribbons but their
own finished design rather than OEM devices.

The model is Radia 520 and use a 50" ribbon, open back di-pole with 2
x 6.5" dynamic bass drivers.

I have found the design to be deficient as a passive speaker, that is
until I started to use the DEQX and removed the passive network all
together.

I have tried other DSP units as a 2 way active plus sub but I have to
say, these speakers have really come to life when using the DEQX.

The ribbon has an inherant 12dB resonance at about 4kHz then a rapid
in room hf role off.

I have these placed in a large open plan room about 4 feet or so from
back wall and no side walls near. I was able to get a succesful near
field speaker measurement placing the mic about 1m from the panel,
however, the difficulty was in getting a good reading average from
both the ribbon and the bass drivers as the bass drivers are very
close to the floor yet still produce midrange up to 350Hz or so.
Lowering the mic toward the bass drivers of course introduces floor
reflections so you have to be carful of this.

After some playing round I was able to get DEQX to make a speaker
correction that looked pretty good. I confirmed with another analyser
in room that the correction was OK. I found that back wall reflections
didn't make a big difference to measurements in my particular room.

With DEQX crossovers and speaker correction, these speakers have come
to life and have impressed all that have heard them. They have
phenominal dynamics and transient speed and 3D imaging like you don't
get from forward firing speakers. They don't spec very effient on
paper but I find that in room they have huge headroom when driven with
a decent amount of power and have huge peak output and power handling.

My recommendation is to measure the system (ie. the driver mounted the
way it is going to be used) rather than raw drivers. B&G have done
some mechanical tayloring with damping material on one side of the
ribbon enclosure etc so the final result is different to the raw
driver. The enclosure you mount in will also make differences to the
measurments.

The B&G Radia 520's are a great example of were the DEQX can work
wonders and make a problematic speaker really shine.

Rob J.

Thought you mind find the above of interest,
J

[ekovalsky]

Anyone familiar with Newform know what is happening with the NHB 645/ULTRA ?

This models are designed for use with TacT or DEQX and feature significantly upgraded enclosures and woofers compared with the standard 645.   With separate subwoofers handling the bottom two octaves these should be killer.

I had emailed John Meyer but haven't gotten any response.

[denverdoc]

ekovalsky,

Odd--i also have tried to reach John M by e-mail and have received no response--hope all is OK as he is normally one of the most customer responsive people in high end audio.

As to the status of the various incarnations of the ultra system, there have been several plans for such in the 7 years I have owned my Newfs, but they never seem to quite fruit. John called me several times during the purchase phase and never seemed rushed, why not give him a call and see whats up.
J