My sennheiser HD 580 sound boring compared to my SR60's-wtf?

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 05:34 am »

Thanks for the feedback. Very interesting.

It's interesting to note that Linkwitz feels that the er4s has clearly raised highs starting after 1khz. See: http://linkwitzlab.com/reference_earphones.htm

Should be interesting reading for you since he suggests a fix.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 07:55 am »

Yes, I'm aware of that Linkwitz notion, and I will probably try the EQ he suggested before I go to the trouble of building the compensation circuit. I'll just construct it on my handy dandy Metric Halo 2882+DSP which has up to 12 fully parametric bands of EQ per channel. 2 or 3 should be enough - don't know why I didn't think of that before.

I had thought, since the ER4S sounds so natural to me as is, and Etymotic Research are leading researchers in the field of hearing aids, hearing protectors and earphones, that perhaps Siegfried was not pushing the earpieces far enough in. This is commonly the case with new users and quite important to get the right balance. I am not hearing anything like what is suggested by those curves, but it will be easy enough for me to experiment.

By the way, it is interesting to note that the 5dB cut at 2.5kHz proposed by Linkwitz almost exactly mirrors the frequency, if not the magnitude of a 10dB boost that Etymotic designed in at what appears to be 2.8kHz! See:
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4-ts.aspx

Russell

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 01:58 pm »

Very interesting. Too bad there aren't enough details. Different speakers have different power responses at different level, and they mention the speakers tested to be considered "flat," whatever that means.

Is what they're saying that they EQ'd it to sound like typical speakers in a typical living room rather than the real deal? Should the response be flat or should we merely "perceive" it to be "flat?" It would be interesting to play with the EQ.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 06:20 pm »

It looks like what they're saying is that they've designed it to split the difference between a good contemporary speaker's room response and "reality", which is not totally unlike what AKG may have done with the "diffuse field" model 240.

R_burke · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 06:55 pm »

What about tweaks for the 580s? Does anyone know how the woodies or other tweaks affect the 580s? I have a pair, but do find them "veiled" and only listen when the family wont let me listen through my speakers.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 11:04 pm »

Taking the foam cover off helps the veil, but I don't think one can completely remove the veil from the HD580's. That's really just the Sennheiser house sound, though I haven't tried the Woodies- I've heard most of the other tweaks. If you want less veil, look at other cans- I was very impressed with the Beyer DT990's and am hearing great things about the AKG 701.

Michael

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 01:25 am »

I've read that the 580+deq2496 does quite well - but you could probably say that for any decent headphone. Removing the foam did well for me for a while but ultimately was a little too harsh for me on the top end so I put the foam back.

It's pretty interesting to note that most headphones measure like crud compared to even budget speakers. Actually, they measure somewhat like the real high end artsy fartsy speakers like Wilsons or Silverlines. You do gain a lot of detail with the close proximity to your ears.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 01:43 am »

Yeah, there are some pretty weird measurements for headphones, though the Senn HD-650's measure pretty damn well- at least if you look at the measurement graphs on headphone.com. The HD580's are super rolled off in the high frequencies, while the Grado's have a monster spike in the upper mids, so I guess it's no wonder I think they are more exciting

.

Michael

boead · « **Reply #28 on:** 5 Feb 2006, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: mcrespo71

Taking the foam cover off helps the veil, but I don't think one can completely remove the veil from the HD580's. That's really just the Sennheiser house sound, though I haven't tried the Woodies- I've heard most of the other tweaks. If you want less veil, look at other cans- I was very impressed with the Beyer DT990's and am hearing great things about the AKG 701.

Michael

I’ve listened to very many headphones and amps. My taste are for the Sennheiser HD-600’s, I prefer them over the 650’s and just about all other headphones.
The veil is definitely part of the Sennheiser house sound. Its not really a veil, that‘s a negative connotation. It’s a darker, more recessed soundstage that is more similar to speakers in a room. The new AKG 701 do this even better and are VERY similar to the HD600’s, they each do something better and worse and if you have the money and are a Sennheiser fan you want both. The Beyers are also a lot like the Sennheisers and AKG 701’s.
These headphones NEED a serious amp which can make them come alive to become an entirely different animal. They can rock, swing, play jazz or classical equally as well with the proper amp. Unfortunately a proper amp isn’t cheap. In my opinion they start at about $1000 and need to be chosen carefully for your taste.

The Grado house sound? I just don’t like it, never have and likely never will. I’ve heard the 80’s, the 225’s, the 325’s and wasn’t pleased with any. A friend listed to an HD-1’s with custom Beyer cups and pads and said they were maybe one of the worst sounding headphones he’d heard in a long time! I haven’t heard the RS-1’s but from what I have read, I won’t like them either I’m sure. Grados are overly exaggerated, unbalanced and usually bright. They are uncomfortable and fatiguing. It’s certainly a matter of taste, isnt’ it?

The AKG 701’s maybe the next best headphone made. A friend got a pair weeks ago and after borrowing them for a week, I want a pair just at 65ohms, my SET amp prefers my 300ohm Sennheisers.

Tyson · « **Reply #29 on:** 5 Feb 2006, 08:58 pm »

I had the wood earcups on my HD600's for a while, it just made them sound a lot more forward, really emphasized the upper mids and low treble. But the bass was not balanced for this new sound, so they just ended up being irritating over the medium and long term. Since I pretty much have to use closed headphones I've settled (after owning a lot of closed headphones) on the Beyer DT250-250 with a Radii tube headphone amp for giving me the best sound for my tastes (this is the closest you can get to the sound of the 600's in a closed can, IMO). Of course if you got the scratch, the Sensaphonics 2X-Soft earbuds are better than anything else I've heard, but they are in-ear monitors, so if you don't like things sticking in your ear, they are not for you. Also, since they are custom built to fit your ear, you can't resell them if you don't like them. Luckily I love them, but I still have the Beyer's for when I'd rather not have something sticking in my ears.