Help Me Choose Next Upgrade

John151 · « **on:** 26 Jan 2005, 01:51 am »

I have a pair of Magnepan 2.5s, driven by a Stratos Plus.

Upstream I have an NAD receiver, and an NAD DVD Player.

The system serves as both a 5.1 AV system, and as a 2 channel system.

The sound so far is very good, but I am sure it can get much better for 2 channel. Here are some of the upgrades I am considering:

1) Add a Tempest with HT bypass.
2) Add a DAC (no idea which one, don't know didley about these).
3) Upgrade Stratos to Twin Mono Extremes.
4) Replace DVD player with a dedicated, high end CD player (no idea which one).
5) Replace Magnepans with Odyssey Loreleis

So, which of the above do you think gives the biggest bang for 2 channel?

MaxCast · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 02:34 am »

I would change #3 to read: Upgrade to mono's or mono extremes. I know it's more $$, but hey, it's not my money.

Musky_Don · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 02:43 am »

John - I agree with Maxcast. Upgrade to the Extreme Monos. Don

John151 · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 02:53 am »

Okay, that is actually a reasonable option as I have room for both.

I changed #3 to an upgrade to Dual Mono Extremes. Now, you need to chose again

MaxCast · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 03:10 am »

This is a tough call. I would see if anyone in your area can let you audition a Tempest or DAC. I'm sure one of those guys in the Chicago clubs have a spare tubed pre lieing around.

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 03:31 am »

Quote from: John151

Okay, that is actually a reasonable option as I have room for both.

I changed #3 to an upgrade to Dual Mono Extremes. Now, you need to chose again

Odyssey has a product that is a "Dual Mono" amp, but it can never be made Extreme because the case is not big enough.

Can you call #3 "2 Mono Extremes" ?

I say do all 4....what the hell, ain't my money

F-100 · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 03:55 am »

Quote from: John151

So, which of the above do you think gives the biggest bang for 2 channel?

Upgrade to Mono Extreme will NOT improve your 2 channel unless you replace your NAD receiver with a preamp with bypass like Tempest. The weakest link in your system now is the NAD receiver.

John151 · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 04:47 am »

Quote from: Marbles

Quote from: John151
Okay, that is actually a reasonable option as I have room for both.

I changed #3 to an upgrade to Dual Mono Extremes. Now, you need to chose again

Can you call #3 "2 Mono Extremes" ?

Done. And that is what I meant to say.

John151 · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 04:49 am »

I added option 5, replace Maggies with Lorelies.

Jay S · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 08:45 am »

Your Stratos and Maggies are very good and are not the biggest improvement opportunities in your system. I suggest you focus on a source or preamp. I like NAD gear. My first system was an NAD cd player and an NAD receiver. But, they are likely not as good as your amp and speakers.

If I were you I would get a MiniMax tubed cd player. This is a very musical player than you can get for <$1k. Even if you get a nice power cord and several different tubes to try you will spend under $1k. I think there is a guy here on AC selling a used one for an exellent price. The Minimax cd player has gotten excellent reviews. And I think that the tubes sound great in a source, esp if paired with a solid state preamp (you would still use your NAD receiver as a preamp) and amp. You can then easily fine-tune the sound by trying different tubes.

Even cheaper is to try a Scott Nixon TubeDac, which you can get for ~$300 used. There are tons of different tubes you can try for $10-$30 each. You can also get the non-tube version for $250 new. You would then use your NAD dvd player as a transport but I am not sure how good a transport it is, hence my preference to get a good cd player so that you cut down on the variables.

Finally, please add an option 6: get 2 OneAc isolation transformers from ebay (<$50 each/shipped), 1 for your dvd player / cd player / dac, and another for your preamp (maybe your tv as well). These are professional/industrial grade power conditioners that you can get for pennies on the dollar. Your sources need good clean power -- it will make a very nice difference esp if, as suggested above, you separate your digital and analog components. Note: the Stratos usually sounds best plugged straight into the wall since it uses a lot of current, more than most isolation transformers can provide.

Good luck and have fun!

Pirate · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 05:19 pm »

I went from a Nad reciever to the Sratos Extreme. I continued to use the Nad as a pre. Recently I aquired the Tempest. If you noticed the differance adding the Stratos you can expect the Tempest to do the same.

F-100 · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 05:30 pm »

If your budget is tight, I would go with option 1. But if you're rich and money is not a problem, then by all mean, go with option 1 thru 5

rosconey · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 05:34 pm »

you dont realise how bad your stuff is till you replace it with odyssey gear.
my tempest is getting the remote fixed and i had to go back to my yamaha rxv1(topline from a few years ago)what a piece of crap it sounds like now that im used to odyyssey stuff.

forget about the budget and get extreme monos and extreme tempest

byteme · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 05:47 pm »

On my journey from primarily HT focused system to primarily 2channel while still being HT ready I noticed the biggest gains in this order:

Adding an amp to my reciever (5 channel Sherwood Newcastle AM9080)
Upgrading Polk RTA11tl's to Lorelei's
Adding a preamp to my Denon 3802 for 2 channel only (HT bypass is easy to do even if the preamp doesn't actually have HT bypass)
Improving the source by getting a Nixon Tubedac & transport (eventually modded by Steve at Empirical)

Now, you've already done #1 with the Stratos. For #2 - you're not starting at Polk RTA11tl's, which, while very good speakers are not Maggies.

A preamp will help more than you think it will. I can't really comment on going to Mono Extremes, however, I should be able to in about a month or so - I'm upgrading my Stratos Extreme to a Mono Extreme and buying another Mono Extreme. Should be really yummy with the Lors!

BTW: My preamp is a deHavilland Ultraverve - WONDERFUL stuff! However, prior to that I had a Philly Audio Blues 7b which you can still find around used or try a new Blues 7a. Great sound for little $$ and a great match with the Odyssey amps. All three pre's mentioned used stepped attenuators so doing "HT Passthrough" is as easy as running the L&R speaker pre-outs from the receiver to the preamp. Calibrate your HT and mark on the preamp where the volume was set. Then, when you want to use your HT, switch to that input, turn the volume to the marked point, and off you go - "poor man's" HT bypass!

popsyr · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 07:58 pm »

John

Have you broken in your HT-3?

I would also recommend the Tempest, option 1. I started with the Stratos and then several months later got the Tempest and boy did that make a very big difference. My CDs even started sounding better and warmer. The phono section on the Tempest is very good which is the main reason I got it.

There is a Tempest in black on audiogon for $750.00 at this link: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1110388950

John151 · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 08:34 pm »

Randy - I think it is broken in, but I have not really been paying that close attention to that. It sounded better than my Stereo Stratos from day one (which is an older unit), an I am very happy with it.

I am torn between selling the Stereo Stratos, or upgrading it to an extreme and selling the HT-3, or selling both and going with Monos. My original plan was to replace the Receiver with a PrePro, and power all 5 maggies with Klaustronics. However, I have since configured the receiver to power two other rooms in my basement, along with the surrounds in the main room, so I only need one external amp (i.e Klause powers either L&F, or L,R, & C). I really like my current config as I have killed 3 birds with one stone, and now it is time to fine tune the 2 channel.

I am leaning towards getting a Tempest, but that would also probably require either a DAC, or an upgrade to the CDP, or both, as my CDP is a weak link.

Pirate · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 08:45 pm »

This is the link for Avalon65 on AC.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15426

With this deal you could also get the Lorelies. I believe there is a pair available on AC also. I want them

but cash is short at the moment. I do have a pair of Nightingales that are very nice and will hold me untill I can make the upgrade.
I am also toying with the idea of upgrading my source (Ah! 4000). I feel the Odyssey match up is being short changed on it's full capabilities.

What ever you decide to do, it won't be the end

avalon65 · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 09:40 pm »

Quote from: popsyr

John

Have you broken in your HT-3?

I would also recommend the Tempest, option 1. I started with the Stratos and then several months later got the Tempest and boy did that make a very big difference. My CDs even started sounding better and warmer. The phono section on the Tempest is very good which is the main reason I got it.

There is a Tempest in black on audiogon for $750.00 at this link: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1110388950

John,

Thanks Popsyr and Pirate for linking my Tempest post on Audiogon. I completely agree with Popsyr and others that recommend the pre amp upgrade. The Tempest was the final piece to my Odyssey puzzle and made a huge difference over the highly regarded Adcom GFP-750. It is a very musical pre. I liked it so much I purchased a second one a few months back for my basement system. Now I want to upgrade to monos in my main system so I'm selling the basement system (didn't get enough use) to fund the monos. Klaus can easily add the HT bypass to it if you like.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but if anybody's interested I have a like-new pair of Epiphany’s that are going up for sale too. Damn this is an extremely addicting hobby... PM me if interested.

Larry

djbnh · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 11:52 pm »

IMHO, going for the Tempest seems the best option at this time. I used to have an NAD pre, and it got roundly smacked in all areas by the Tempest. If you go this route, I would consider what options you need. My Tempest has a 2nd set of outs, and no remote. If you need HT, then the option to consider would be the HT bypass. Note you cannot have both the HT bypass and 2nd set of outputs.

John151 · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Jan 2005, 05:37 am »

After work tonight I stopped by Morningstar Audio and had a very nice visit with Bill O'Connell. After a very nice chat, Bill loaned me a MiniMax Tube Pre.

I have spent the last 3 hours listening to a variety of music. I didn't bother with an A/B, I just listened to the new setup. The difference was immediately appearant. All of those adjectives that I have read in so many reviews came to mind: open, airy, detailed, better imaging, etc.. After 3 hours of listening at elevated volumes, I had no fatigue, which I think I would have with my prev set up.

I was expecting more warmth, but it was not warmer, but instead brighter. Also, I seemed to have lost some bottom end. On a few tracks, it seemed like a significant loss. I will have to do an A/B on those tracks tomorrow to confirm. Keep in mind that I am comparing this set up to my Reciever, which was using a Coax connection. Thus, I will have to do some A/B tests with the receiver using an analog connection to better evaluate the Pre. I did some A/B tests in the past with my receiver using analog vs Coax, and found the analong to be brighter, so some of my initial findings with the MiniMax may be due to the CD Players analog circuits.

Unfortunately, Bill was fresh out of CD Players. I was really looking fwd to hearing both in concert.

Special thanks to Bill O'Connell. For those of you who do not know him, Bill is the North American Importer of Eastern Electric Audio Components. Bill is a true audiophile, and has a zeal for audio gear like I have never seen before. I really enjoyed talking with him, and hope to purchase one of his CD players when he gets his next shipment in.

It is late, and I have to turn in. I will post more this weekend.