[SoCalWJS]

I really wanted this to work, but I guess this is just beyond me.

This is primarily venting, but maybe somebody can offer suggestions.

Bought a used Mac Mini off of ebay. Apple Mac Mini i7-4578U, OSX 10.14, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Late 2014. The seller appears to be reputable and says it passed all tests prior to shipping. I got it hooked up a few days later and everything looks like it worked fine. Downloaded Trial of ROON and installed it. I had a couple of USB external drives and let ROON do it's thing and start finding everything. After a short time, the screen blacked out and I got a shutdown message. Checked and it was some sort of Kernal error. I let it continue running and eventually it continued building the Library, but then crashed again - same thing. This happened several times but eventually got through the whole process.

Took a bit of trial and error, but eventually got the settings in ROON correct and had it outputting to my ModWright Oppo 205 latest firmware) - but it still continued to crash periodically - I'd say as little as 5-10 minutes to as long as a half hour. Not good for listening.

Tried everything I could find online and through ebay seller and everything appears to be fine with Mac - all tests report no problems.

Even tried reinstalling ROON. Same results. Some sort on internal conflict that I can't figure out/resolve.

Time running out on free trial, so I cancelled. Thinking of sending MacMini back and starting over with a different solution (NUC?). I'm not an Apple guy by any stretch, but I did finally get an iPad Pro and was hoping to run it from the iPad, so that's why I went with a MacMini. Wonder if I could get it all running in a non Apple environment.

Frustrating to say the least.

 

[SFDude]

Kernal error means a few things.

The memory on the Mac Mini might be going bad, the hard drive might be going bad, etc. But your best bet might be to return it to the seller. Roon is pretty stable.

-dave

[lokie]

My experience with getting ROON up and running was painful as well. It took me a while to realize the Mac Mini I was using didn't have enough horsepower for the size of library I was trying to use it with.

Other problems as well. But, after weeks and months of persistence, I finally got it up and running and its been smooth sailing ever since. It was worth it. Once you get it set up, it is a joy to use.

[SoCalWJS]

Kernal error means a few things.

The memory on the Mac Mini might be going bad, the hard drive might be going bad, etc. But your best bet might be to return it to the seller. Roon is pretty stable.

-dave

Any reliable way to tell on the Memory or SSD? They passed the check's that Apple provides in their OS, but I don't know if I trust it.

I've left a bunch of other things open/running with no crashes.

[rikhav]

I have not used a Mac too much so don't know what could be an issue but very confident it's a it's some hardware related issue
I am using an amd 2 core cpu about 7 years old for pc which is used as roon server and upsmples all music to 24/176 and it does that without any problems
So yes you don't need very high end specs to make room work and it's very stable
Try using the Mac mini for day to day tasks like internet browsing and others and see how it works

But absolutely confident it's not an issue with roon and it's a hardware related issue

[witchdoctor]

I recommend a different OS altogether, either Bluos or DTS-Playfi and sending back the Mac Mini and get either a Bluesound Node or a Klipsch Gate instead. The Gate sounds awesome and is only $30 on Amazon. Plug it into your preamp, install the Playfi app on your device and you are off to the races. Either solution gives you whole house audio capabilities and hirez as well.
I own both and to my ears the Gate sounds better and the DTS-Playfi OS works fine. The Node also gives you MQA.

[skunark]

The hardware requirements for ROON is just unreal for something as simple as streaming music to a dac.

If you have a large library horriblly tagged then it has some value.  If you dont and only stream it is unnecessary complexity and even the wrong technical model for streaming since there are multiple points of failures.   

There are a lot of folks that like ROON, and more power to them if it works and dont mind the extra hardware expenses.    RPI3 + MPD + UPMPDCLI + ifi PSU + DAC hat will set you back $150 and sound like $3k source with tidal streaming to it with Linn Kazoo app.    If you want to play your own files then either add a hdd or network share, the Linn app will work with that too. 

[brj]

Are you near an Apple store?  If so, set up an appointment there and let them look at it.  Any kernel panic will be recorded in the log files.  It could be something as simple as the RAM was joggled during shipping and needs to be re-seated.  (I'd clean the contacts at the same time... just like audio.)  Hard to tell, but it sounds like your challenge might be that particular machine, rather than Roon in particular.

(I've run Roon on a quad-core i7 processor based 2012 Mac Mini for years, occasionally doing so from my 2011 MacBook Pro and a borrowed 2013 MBP as well, all without a single hiccup.)

Roon's computational requirements are relative to ones specific use case, by the way.  My brother was running Roon without issue off of a 2013 Synology NAS for a long time, which is quite limited computationally.  Now if you have a massive library and are performing a lot of DSP, then yes, the computational demand can increase notably.  In my case, I'm upsampling to DSD128 and performing high-res convolution (DSP) at the same time, yet my 2012 Mac Mini rarely exceeds 30% load.

This can quickly get technical, but if you're curious, you can look at the logs yourself:

• Click on the Apple icon menu in upper left corner of screen
• Select the 'About This Mac' menu option
• Click the 'System Report' button
• Select the 'Logs' menu listing under the 'Software' section on the left side
• Select the log that interest you and start reading

[SoCalWJS]

Are you near an Apple store?  If so, set up an appointment there and let them look at it.  Any kernel panic will be recorded in the log files.  It could be something as simple as the RAM was joggled during shipping and needs to be re-seated.  (I'd clean the contacts at the same time... just like audio.)  Hard to tell, but it sounds like your challenge might be that particular machine, rather than Roon in particular.

(I've run Roon on a quad-core i7 processor based 2012 Mac Mini for years, occasionally doing so from my 2011 MacBook Pro and a borrowed 2013 MBP as well, all without a single hiccup.)

Roon's computational requirements are relative to ones specific use case, by the way.  My brother was running Roon without issue off of a 2013 Synology NAS for a long time, which is quite limited computationally.  Now if you have a massive library and are performing a lot of DSP, then yes, the computational demand can increase notably.  In my case, I'm upsampling to DSD128 and performing high-res convolution (DSP) at the same time, yet my 2012 Mac Mini rarely exceeds 30% load.

This can quickly get technical, but if you're curious, you can look at the logs yourself:

• Click on the Apple icon menu in upper left corner of screen
• Select the 'About This Mac' menu option
• Click the 'System Report' button
• Select the 'Logs' menu listing under the 'Software' section on the left side
• Select the log that interest you and start reading

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I'm running 2 external USB drives totaling in excess of 7 TB of music. I am NOT running any DSP at this point (that I know of), but it is still a large Library.

I've had the computer up all day after deleting ROON and I've run various programs - Safari, Games (a solitaire & chess) along with the other pre-installed software and it has not crashed a single time.

I did as you suggested and looked at the logs, but it is mostly gobbeldy gook to me - specific memory/hex listings and a few words )/dev/rdisk4 and QUICKCHECK seem to pop up regularly in the filesystem repair log 

Since it's a "Late 2014" MacMini, the memory is soldered in and there's not much I can do.....


EDIT: Is there a program that I can run that puts a heavy load on the processor and see if that causes a similar problem? (Something FREE  )

[geowak]

Maybe the post should have been “Tried used 2014 Mac mini off EBay- failed?”

[SoCalWJS]

Maybe the post should have been “Tried used 2014 Mac mini off EBay- failed?”

Could be - yet it works on everything else (that I have been able to try) and passes all tests....

Still leaning towards sending it back and trying a different unit.

[brj]

Ah yes, I'd forgotten exactly when they started soldering in the RAM.  Though that was just an example from off the top of my head.

There are many benchmarking and stress-test codes out there, but your best bet is to let someone that understands the logs take a look at the residuals related to the actual problem, rather than guessing that processor load was the issue and trying to simulate that in a manner that may not match well enough to trigger the condition.  Note that as I understand it, a large library is more stressing to the GPU than the CPU from Roon's perspective (once everything is indexed for the first time, at least).

Alternatively, you could ping Roon with the explanation that you only observed the issue when running their software.  That's not exhaustive evidence, but they might be able to provide additional input.  Either way, additional information is going to be needed to truly identify the source of the problem.  (The logs are just a natural next source of added info, but as you point out, you'd need someone to take a look.)  My encouragement to approach an Apple store, however, was based on the fact that - if you just want out and the seller won't take it back - you'll need someone to issue the Mini a clean bill of health prior to your attempting to sell it, and they could do that.  Or at least approximate it enough to calm most potential buyers.

I've had to hunt problems on almost every type of computing platform over the years (though much less so lately), and no platform or application is completely immune in my experience.  They all have quirks and challenges, as evidenced by the overwhelming mass of anecdotes you'll find at every turn.  I've personally found Macs to be the best compromise overall for a general computing platform, but everyone has different needs and wants and may land somewhere else.  And the math changes a bit when you want/need a truly single-purpose 'appliance'.  (The Roon Nucleus is a good example of one such appliance.  It has been well reviewed, and it happens to be what my brother moved to with great success after shifting Roon off his NAS, but as others will point out, there are plenty of options.  It comes down to what you value, including the value you put on your time.)

[avta]

Try running Disk Utility in safe mode. Restart your computer. As soon as you hear the startup sound hold down the command and R buttons on your keyboard until the Apple logo appears. Then select Disk Utility from the choices and let it run on the Mac Hard Drive. See if anything comes up in the summary of operations.

[SoCalWJS]

Try running Disk Utility in safe mode. Restart your computer. As soon as you hear the startup sound hold down the command and R buttons on your keyboard until the Apple logo appears. Then select Disk Utility from the choices and let it run on the Mac Hard Drive. See if anything comes up in the summary of operations.

Did that early on in the process. Tests OK. (actually Command + D. Also Command + R for reloading the OS) Tried a few others as well, but couldn't get them to work.

Wish I knew Apple/Mac better

[brj]

Apple diagnostics?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202731

[Rusty Jefferson]

I don't use Roon or Apple products.  I have seen some friends who do struggle until they switched to one of the i7 nuc hardware setups.  From the Roon website:

".....Will ROCK run on my existing hardware? How about this other hardware?
We have only tested with the above mentioned NUCs. It may work with other machines, but the drivers needed may not exist there. Try it out and let us know. We can not comment on whether any different hardware will work, as we have not tested it. We will not make any guesses, educated as they might be.

If you do manage to get it to run, that's great, but we can not guarantee it will continue to work with future builds. Consider yourself warned.

ROCK is great, but I want to do X Y and Z.
Please read this. It was written by a member of our community that summed up our thoughts on this very well....."

at this link:

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit

[sts9fan]

I'm sure many have had other experiences but this is mine.  I love Roon but have had stability issues in the past.  I too was using an "older" mac mini that I tried to strip down.  I generally found the mac mini to be very frustrating and it always wanted to do other "stuff".  I could never get it stripped down enough.  Why cant I delete iTunes?????
Anyway then I built a super simple ROON ROCK out of a little NUC i7.  Now I have a purpose built device with no bullshit and likely cheaper then a Mac Mini.
I love Roon!
If anyone needs help building a ROCK shoot me a pm.

[sresener]

I tried Roon and for the family it seamed great, but for me having it on a server then pass all data along a cat cable through my network (switches) to another cat cable to a roon ready device then connect that to my preamp/dac. That seemed overly complicated for my needs. And I would assume this whole process could have some effect on quality.

My expirement im currently working on is a passivly cooled nuc, I threw a 2tb ssd in it and power it with a nice linear power supply. I plan to connect this directly to my new dac/preamp. (once it arrives) Right now its connected directly to my txrz1100 via hdmi. Currently Im running the tidal app (which decodes mqa via software) and play my hi-res audio with hq player.  I know this is not a ideal setup but my dac/preamp isn't here yet.


I wanted to add that Today I went into a high end hifi shop to see if I was on the right track with my experiment . I sat in a room with some B&W diamond 800d3's everything else was high end Sim Audio gear, heck I think all the interconnects used (high end nordost) were worth more than my entire system. They played 3 songs for me that I know very well (doors - riders on the storm, Fleetwood mac - Gold Dust Woman and Janelle Monae - Make Me Feel) I had my db meter with me and set the volume to play at approx 85db (which sounded louder than I expected).  I was in the room at least 45 min. I came up with the conclusion that Roon and Tidal Mqa did this system no justice and it definatly made me look forward to my new dac/preamps arrival even more.
  Don't get me wrong the system sounded great and better than mine, but if return on investment for better sound quality is that low, Ill be hard pressed to just start throwing money at gear and I would be very leary to have a Roon Setup as my source.