Daedalus BOW

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rbbert

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #20 on: 23 Nov 2020, 09:21 pm »
The BOW and Crossover are still in the current product line. To be honest they are a pain to build so I don't do much to promote them.
They fill a niche for someone willing to have separates and who wants a very detailed, efficient and responsive sub.
Thanks,
Lou
:thumb:

Drew769

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #21 on: 24 Nov 2020, 03:13 am »
I had used my DA-1.1 V2s with a pair of Vandersteen 2WQ powered subwoofers.  Vandersteen’s subwoofers designs all call for the use of a high pass between the preamplifier and amplifier.  The subwoofers get their signal from the same speaker taps as the main speaker.  The 2WQs get crossed over att 80hz, while the Quatro and Model 5s get crossed at 100hz.  The main speakers no longer have to attempt to reproduce the lowest frequencies, and the main amplifier is able to be less stressed.  The result is improved midrange and great synergy with the subwoofers.  It completely changed the DA-1.1s and made them faster, more accurate, and more impactful at the same time.  If you use the crossover boxes designed for the Model 5, you can play with the settings to fine tune the best crossover point to match your main speakers.

Vandersteen now makes an improved version of that sub with the room correction technology from the 5 and 7 speakers. The older 2WQs are a great value.  You can easily get a pair for under a grand.  At that price they are giant killers.

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #22 on: 24 Nov 2020, 07:58 pm »
I had used my DA-1.1 V2s with a pair of Vandersteen 2WQ powered subwoofers.  Vandersteen’s subwoofers designs all call for the use of a high pass between the preamplifier and amplifier.  The subwoofers get their signal from the same speaker taps as the main speaker.  The 2WQs get crossed over att 80hz, while the Quatro and Model 5s get crossed at 100hz.  The main speakers no longer have to attempt to reproduce the lowest frequencies, and the main amplifier is able to be less stressed.  The result is improved midrange and great synergy with the subwoofers.  It completely changed the DA-1.1s and made them faster, more accurate, and more impactful at the same time.  If you use the crossover boxes designed for the Model 5, you can play with the settings to fine tune the best crossover point to match your main speakers.

Vandersteen now makes an improved version of that sub with the room correction technology from the 5 and 7 speakers. The older 2WQs are a great value.  You can easily get a pair for under a grand.  At that price they are giant killers.

While every room and system is unique I generally do not recommend running the signal for the Daedalus mains through a subwoofer XO. I also do not recommend a crossover frequency above 40 hz (except for HT).  These recommendations are especially true for our current speakers and the Daedalus Apollo line.  I do reiterate that each system, room and individual are different, and there is no harm in experimenting to see what works best for your system. 
btw at frequencies above 55hz the location of the sub is critical to the imaging, they should be in stereo and very close to the main speaker(s).

sunnydaze

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #23 on: 24 Nov 2020, 08:15 pm »
  Vandersteen’s subwoofers designs all call for the use of a high pass between the preamplifier and amplifier.  The subwoofers get their signal from the same speaker taps as the main speaker. 

Not understanding this.    :scratch:

High passing before the main amp means it is only getting 80 or 100 hz and above.
If sub is attached high level to main amp, then how can the sub receive any frequencies below 80 or 100Hz, since they don't exist in the main amp?

I must be missing something....... :dunno:

rbbert

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #24 on: 24 Nov 2020, 10:28 pm »
I have my REL low-pass set for -3 dB at 30 Hz, no filter on the mains.  However, raising or lowering the volume on the sub will change the “crossover” frequency, since there is no real crossover.  In any case, I don’t ever really hear the sub, although turning it off while listening to wide range music it is then noticeable

advanced101

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #25 on: 24 Nov 2020, 11:44 pm »
I think a lot of the magic with the Bows is in his crossover.  Guys, don't over think it, get the Bows.  Get two, put it on a credit card  :lol:

A good friend of mine listened to my system with the Bows and immediately went out and bought two REL G1mkii as he was convinced what subs can bring to the equation.  I helped try to dial them in, including the hi level connection.  The integration is good, but not close to mine.  I wouldn't trade those subs for the Bows.  I have also personally owned a JL F113 with a pair of B&W 800D2.  Those paired well, still not as good as the Bows. 

From the driver, to the cabinet to the specifically designed crossover... Daedalus Bows are meant to work with Daedalus speakers.

I have no doubt REL or JL would sound good with the Daedalus, I just believe the Bows will sound better with less effort.  Plus they match aesthetically.

Now if someone can please buy my speakers so I can move up to the Zeus :p

rbbert

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #26 on: 25 Nov 2020, 12:43 am »
I already had the REL ;)  What is the cost of the BOW and Xover (amp to be determined but lots of options in the used market)?

advanced101

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #27 on: 25 Nov 2020, 01:53 am »
Sorry, that wasn't directed towards you.

I don't want to say what I paid as that was at least a year ago.  Compared to REL, I would have had to pay double to get a pair of G1mkii. 

rbbert

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #28 on: 25 Nov 2020, 12:50 pm »
Sorry, that wasn't directed towards you.

I don't want to say what I paid as that was at least a year ago.  Compared to REL, I would have had to pay double to get a pair of G1mkii.
My response was more curiosity and an effort to get more information and opinions into this thread.  As I said, I already have the REL, but that’s not to say I wouldn’t consider upgrade or change; after all, that’s how I ended up with the Apollo 11’s.   8)

dminches

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #29 on: 25 Nov 2020, 01:08 pm »
Not understanding this.    :scratch:

High passing before the main amp means it is only getting 80 or 100 hz and above.
If sub is attached high level to main amp, then how can the sub receive any frequencies below 80 or 100Hz, since they don't exist in the main amp?

I must be missing something....... :dunno:

The high pass filter rolls off the lower frequencies (this can be adjusted) by about 6 dB.  The sub bumps these frequencies back up.  Thus, the signal going to the main amp is reduced but the sub is able to boost it back.

sunnydaze

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #30 on: 25 Nov 2020, 07:48 pm »
The high pass filter rolls off the lower frequencies (this can be adjusted) by about 6 dB.  The sub bumps these frequencies back up.  Thus, the signal going to the main amp is reduced but the sub is able to boost it back.

OK...thanks.   :thumb:

I thought "high-passing" completely eliminates the LF signal.  If it just "quiets" them, then what you say makes sense to me now.

A_shah

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #31 on: 30 Nov 2020, 06:12 pm »
First of all i would like to update regarding the break in period of my Posedon speakers , it took a while I connected the main speakers to Denon AVR 4500H , it took about 60 hours for me to notice any change in the speaker dynamics and sound they started to sound sweet .
I have them back in my two channel system with my very resolving QuickSliver mono amps - The Magic is back !!

I am with Lou when it comes to subwoofers  not very fond of them when it comes to two channel listening, but honestly a pair of REL S/812 did the trick I hardly notice  them unless I turn them off ! than I know I am missing something !  The REL S/812 are dual purpose subwoofers ( true sub bass as John Hunter puts it ! very fast very dynamic )they can be separately tuned both for Home theater & two channel listening My HT system is completely separate but share source components like the OPPO 205
The RELs are connected via the LFE for HT and than separately via "High Level "connections to the 8 ohm taps of the tube  monoblocks and are tuned to match with the Poseidons  :thumb:

Asghar

figcon

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #32 on: 10 Dec 2020, 01:33 am »
I've not been on Audiocircle in quite a while, but thought I might chime in as I have what may be the only pair of BOW's with double 12's in each cabinet. They are fantastic subwoofers, especially with Daedlaus speakers. I drove them for a while with a Bryston 4B and a modified Behringer 2496, but now using a pair of Dayton SPA 1000's and while not necessarily audiophile approved, they are fantastic sub amps and have quite a bit of adjustability built in to them. Probably around 500-700 watts per side and I guess kind of a hybrid power supply with a good sized transformer and what they call a "Patented tracking downconverter power supply for high efficiency". They are rated to be 86% efficient, so obviously part "Class D" in the power supply. The amps weigh about 17 pounds each, out of their packaging. Call it whatever you want, but the results a whole lot better than the Bryston/Behringer were. I run my Ulysses full range and have the subs LP crossover set at right around 30 Hz, which is the lowest LP available. I'm not sure of the crossover slope, as they don't list this, but they work great and connect directly to my amp with about 1 foot of wire. I had a guy over who used to be the sales manager for a famous sub manufacturer and he was blown away by the subs. Me, too. 

Early B.

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #33 on: 10 Dec 2020, 02:30 am »
I've not been on Audiocircle in quite a while, but thought I might chime in as I have what may be the only pair of BOW's with double 12's in each cabinet. They are fantastic subwoofers, especially with Daedlaus speakers. I drove them for a while with a Bryston 4B and a modified Behringer 2496, but now using a pair of Dayton SPA 1000's and while not necessarily audiophile approved, they are fantastic sub amps and have quite a bit of adjustability built in to them.

Do you have pics?

No need to apologize about the Dayton SPA 1000. It's far superior to 99% of subwoofer plate amps on the market. I have its little brother.   

figcon

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #34 on: 10 Dec 2020, 01:27 pm »
A this moment, I'm not sure how to download pictures, but will work on it. They are Maple, as are my Ulysses V2. 

advanced101

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #35 on: 10 Dec 2020, 01:35 pm »
Right below the comment box, there is an "Upload and insert an image".

vinyl_lady

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #36 on: 10 Dec 2020, 03:27 pm »
Frank,

great to hear from you after a long pause. do your double 12 BOWs fire front and back?

I'm using a Bryston 4BST to drive my BOWs. I may have to give the Dayton a try.

Best,

Laura

figcon

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #37 on: 10 Dec 2020, 04:35 pm »
Hi Laura.
Good to hear from you. As you can see in the pictures, the two 12" drivers are both on the front and the Aperiodic vent is on the bottom rear panel of the subs. The Dayton amps sit behind each sub. Lou built these for me a several years ago and I can't imagine listening to music without them.

figcon

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #38 on: 10 Dec 2020, 04:44 pm »









figcon

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #39 on: 10 Dec 2020, 04:46 pm »
Pictures are large and not very sharp, but you all can get the idea!!