Daedalus BOW

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advanced101

Daedalus BOW
« on: 12 Feb 2019, 06:50 pm »
Hello All.

Looking to add subwoofers to my Orpheus setup, have been talking to Lou and he recommended the BOWs.

Wanted to get BOW users experiences on amplifier, cable choices and any other recommendations.  Debating between Class D and Class A/B. 

Thanks!

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #1 on: 12 Feb 2019, 08:36 pm »
Depending on the wattage of what the main speakers are being driven by,
two of my favorites are the Parasound New Classic series and the ModWright KWI -150.

vinyl_lady

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #2 on: 14 Feb 2019, 09:53 pm »
I have a pair of BOWs I'm running with my Apollo 11s. I ran the BOWs with my D.A. 1-1v2s before I sold them and bought the 11s. The BOWs added depth and foundation to the music and ensure that my system would reproduce the lowest notes on the Hammond B3. Also, the detail in the mid range and tweeters improved with the BOWs in the system. I am driving the BOWs with a Bryston 4B ST. It has great low end control. I'm using AudioQuest Panther interconnects between the pre amp and the XO and between the XO and the Bryston. The cables are Synergestic Research Alpha Quad with active shielding.

advanced101

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #3 on: 16 Feb 2019, 08:26 pm »
Deposit placed on a pair of BOWs finished in Claro Walnut to match my Orpheus speakers.  Per Lou's recommendation I am leaning towards the Parasound NewClassic 2250 v.2.  Looks like a lot of amplifier for the money.

Scottdazzle

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #4 on: 16 Feb 2019, 11:38 pm »
I suggest you consider Bel Canto REF600M monoblocks. I’m driving my Apollo 11 speakers full range with them. The bass control, depth, finesse, and solidity are superb. I imagine they would be excellent for the BOWs.

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #5 on: 17 Feb 2019, 12:50 am »
I suggest you consider Bel Canto REF600M monoblocks. I’m driving my Apollo 11 speakers full range with them. The bass control, depth, finesse, and solidity are superb. I imagine they would be excellent for the BOWs.
While the Bel Canto are excellent, they are a bit overkill for this application. At almost five times the cost as the Parasound, there would be no advantage to using them for the BOW. As full range amps the BelCanto win hands down but for low bass only the Parasound perform exceptionally well and are pretty much unbeatable for anywhere near their price.

genjamon

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #6 on: 17 Feb 2019, 04:16 am »
That Parasound does look like a ton of amp for the money. If one wanted to give class d a try, the latest Icepower amps based on the 1200AS module available from many vendors come in at not much more than the Parasound. Most refined Class D yet. But would give that iron fisted high damping factor sound to the bass if that’s what you were after.

A_shah

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #7 on: 17 Feb 2019, 04:58 am »
 :popcorn:
« Last Edit: 26 Feb 2019, 04:47 am by A_shah »

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #8 on: 18 Feb 2019, 02:15 am »
That Parasound does look like a ton of amp for the money. If one wanted to give class d a try, the latest Icepower amps based on the 1200AS module available from many vendors come in at not much more than the Parasound. Most refined Class D yet. But would give that iron fisted high damping factor sound to the bass if that’s what you were after.
I have found that only the very best class D have the bass extension and dynamics that are needed for these speakers. Most people use them with speakers that in reality do not do much below 30hz, whereas this is a different ball game. Also as we all know all "watts" are not created equal, ( I am referring to specs that are published) and while a 60 watt tube amp will often match a 120 watt A/B, I have heard 1000 watt Class D that had no more punch or headroom than a much much lower rated conventional SS amp.
BTW , these drivers are custom built for us and unlike almost all other subwoofer drivers do NOT require a high damping factor to stay controlled and tight.

genjamon

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #9 on: 18 Feb 2019, 02:25 am »
Understood, Lou. And I do prefer a quality SS A/B amp with my DA-RMa V2’s over the aforementioned class d amp. The class d edges the SS on detail, but is overly damped and tight sounding. The traditional SS has an ease and emotion that leaves the ultra clean class d sounding a bit sterile. I would think using the class d on BOW duty might cause a mid-match I character between the drivers, so would lean toward the Parasound for that reason.

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #10 on: 18 Feb 2019, 02:33 am »
Understood, Lou. And I do prefer a quality SS A/B amp with my DA-RMa V2’s over the aforementioned class d amp. The class d edges the SS on detail, but is overly damped and tight sounding. The traditional SS has an ease and emotion that leaves the ultra clean class d sounding a bit sterile. I would think using the class d on BOW duty might cause a mid-match I character between the drivers, so would lean toward the Parasound for that reason.
Exactly! :thumb:

Folsom

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #11 on: 1 Mar 2019, 09:23 pm »
What are the specs on the BOW?

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #12 on: 3 Mar 2019, 07:22 pm »
What are the specs on the BOW?

https://www.daedalusaudio.com/copy-of-bow-subwoofer-1

Just updated the Specifications link. We are gradually rebuilding the site, thanks everyone for your patience. :)

JohnR

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #13 on: 4 Mar 2019, 01:19 am »
I expect the woofer is proprietary, not propitiatory. (In the specs)

Daedalus Audio

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #14 on: 4 Mar 2019, 02:38 am »
I expect the woofer is proprietary, not propitiatory. (In the specs)

Thanks John! I always appreciate grammar and spelling checks!

dodgealum

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #15 on: 23 Nov 2020, 05:24 pm »
Hey all--just reached out to Lou to get the conversation going on adding a BOW to my Apollo's. We are moving and my new listening room is triple the volume to what I am in now. Huge vaulted ceilings and open to the kitchen as well. I am torn between adding a second LTA UL or moving to the BOW. I can't afford to do both and may have to limit my BOW to a single cabinet. I see the praise for the Parasound but am looking at other Class D options. For example, a single D-Sonic monoblock amp or similar might be an alternative:

https://www.d-sonic.com/product-category/mono/

I know this thread has not been active for a while so am wondering what the view of the current Class D playing field and whether the D-Sonic or some other might provide performance similar to the Parasound?

advanced101

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #16 on: 23 Nov 2020, 05:54 pm »
The only advice I can give is to get a sub amp with similar damping characteristics to your main speakers.

My speakers are run with a tube amp with low damping and my Bows are run with the Parasound which has a much higher damping factor.  Although the Parasound is crazy good for the dollar there is a slight mismatch in the bass, and I mean slight. 

With my experience, I would avoid mixing Class D and tube amps.  This is just IMHO, the Bows are very sensitive to what you feed them.  Slap them in the system and they will sound good.  Experiment with cabling, feet, get the level just right, and have a well matching amp then it will sound great.

Because I haven't tested my Bows with a tube amp I can only hypothesize.

My future step will be to move my EAR 509 mkii monoblocks to the Bows and go back to a SET amp for the speakers.  Overkill? You betcha!

Overall though, the Bows were some of the best dollars I've spent in audio.  I love my Orpheus and Bows and they continue to get better as I upgrade other parts of system.  I have never heard better bass integration.

vinyl_lady

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #17 on: 23 Nov 2020, 06:06 pm »
Mark,

So glad to hear you will be adding a BOW (or two) to your Apollo 11s. As I indicated above, it will improve the foundation of your system, provide great clarity in the mids and highs and ensure that you hear the very lowest notes. I've been driving my Bows with a 1985 Bryston 4B that was upgraded to the toroidal transformers in 2003 with some new caps and wiring and a new power cord so that it is essential a 4B ST. It does a great job driving the BOWs.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. 

rbbert

Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #18 on: 23 Nov 2020, 08:06 pm »
I'm sure Lou has his reasons but I'm sorry he no longer offers the BOW with dedicated X-over and amp.  Leaving that up to user seems to somewhat defeat his purpose in offering the BOW; using something like one of the REL subs and their high-level input (no high pass filter for the main speakers) is likely to have a better result in many (most) cases.  JMO.

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Re: Daedalus BOW
« Reply #19 on: 23 Nov 2020, 08:27 pm »
I'm sure Lou has his reasons but I'm sorry he no longer offers the BOW with dedicated X-over and amp.  Leaving that up to user seems to somewhat defeat his purpose in offering the BOW; using something like one of the REL subs and their high-level input (no high pass filter for the main speakers) is likely to have a better result in many (most) cases.  JMO.

The BOW and Crossover are still in the current product line. To be honest they are a pain to build so I don't do much to promote them.
They fill a niche for someone willing to have separates and who wants a very detailed, efficient and responsive sub.
Thanks,
Lou