Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi

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toocool4

Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #20 on: 2 Feb 2019, 05:08 pm »
The Furutech duplexes truly made a difference?   This tweak confuses me.  There’s hundreds of feet of power line going from our home plugs all the way back to city power.  That can’t be changed.   The last few feet in to our systems can make a difference?   Is it that proper plugs and power cables give clarity to what reaches the wall?

I have the Furutech  Rhodium double wall sockets for my system and yes it does make a difference. Power cables? Well take that one with a pinch of salt, you need to try for yourself. A good regenerative power conditioner on the other hand, makes huge difference but again try it for yourself.

Gumby

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #21 on: 2 Feb 2019, 05:29 pm »
ELIZABETH

Do the magnetic whiteboards also help other components or just CD players?

Elizabeth

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #22 on: 2 Feb 2019, 05:39 pm »
ELIZABETH

Do the magnetic whiteboards also help other components or just CD players?

I have not gotten that far. I would suspect it is very item dependent. I tried under a Conrad Johnson ACT2 preamplifier, but that also has 1" extra footers. which I would be loath to take away, since the CJ gets hot as a furnace. The mat at 1 1/2" away seemed to do nothing. Plus the reflective white surface was not good for the heat. So I removed it within half an hour.
I plan on trying one under other preamps. maybe under the Marantz SA-10/ When I get around to it. Within the next six months.. 'fer sure.

john1970

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #23 on: 2 Feb 2019, 06:34 pm »
I prefer revealing and neutral so I can hear the details in the recording.  I can see why other might prefer warmer sound. 

maplegrovemusic

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #24 on: 2 Feb 2019, 07:20 pm »
Depends on the mood . Tired listening I want warmth . other times give me all the detail . changes day to day . Best to have a few different amps , dacs , volume controls around for whatever mood I'm in .

HsvHeelFan

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #25 on: 3 Feb 2019, 03:06 am »
I'm a revealing neutral guy over Warm.   

On recordings,  I'll take an electric performance, every time,  over a performance that just lays there.

One great example is recordings of music from "Victory at Sea".   I've got a CD of the late '50's recording with RCA Victor Symphony and Robert Russell Bennett conducting and the exact same charts performed by the Cincinnati Pops conducted by Erich Kunzel on Telarc.   

Yes, the Telarc recording is spectacular.  The RCA recording is so-so, but the RCA performance blows Cincy out of the water.  It's no contest.  When I want to hear "Victory at Sea",  I'll always pick the original recording.

HsvHeelFan

witchdoctor

Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #26 on: 3 Feb 2019, 04:03 pm »
  If a lot of rock, pop, new music , is recorded and mastered at a poor to average quality, then wouldn’t an entry level affordable System, sound better than a High-end, very Revealing Neutral  expensive System?

Yes an entry level system would be a better choice, why not save money if you are listening to poor recordings?


witchdoctor

Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #27 on: 3 Feb 2019, 04:04 pm »
BTW, I'll take a mediocre "live" recording over a pristine studio recording 9 out of 10 times, YMMV.

Mike in NC

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #28 on: 3 Feb 2019, 06:12 pm »
BTW, I'll take a mediocre "live" recording over a pristine studio recording 9 out of 10 times, YMMV.
+1 to that. Both the sound and the musicality often seem better. Live recordings give less chance for the engineering to generate an artificial sound, and zero chance to assemble a performance from separately recorded vocals, instrumentals, strings, etc.

Speedskater

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #29 on: 4 Feb 2019, 04:53 pm »
There are some recording both old and new that will sound better on the original Bose loudspeakers than any hi-fi system.

rollo

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #30 on: 4 Feb 2019, 08:07 pm »
   I think that what we do not want is bright, lean, hard or over detailed. A linear sound. Proper tonality and harmonic structure shold be ones first goal. Images should be focused not blurry.
   There are components out there that give you that, just not inexpensive. See thru clarity with presence is all one needs.
Now saying that I prefer when I hear Live music in a warm room. Just easy on the ears. Can we have it all ? Yes with the right gear. I am a Tweek Geek and will tell you that if the gear does not give you what you want get different gear. Tweaking helps some however it is the component or synergy of such that makes it all gel. No tweak will change the character of a component enough.
  I use tweaks to further bring out what the component does NOT change it.


charles

rollo

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #31 on: 4 Feb 2019, 08:11 pm »
  Elizabeth try hockey pucks under Frig. Helps. I use them under the washer a dryer as well.


charles

Gumby

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #32 on: 4 Feb 2019, 09:42 pm »
SPEEDSKATER

We used to use the Pro version of Bose 901 speakers.   In high school, we DJed dances in large gyms.

Most other DJs back then would show up with large bass bins, and stacks of PA speakers.   

We would install a single pair of Bose 901s on tall tripods, connected with Bryston Pro 4bs, 3bs, and that was our sound system. 

It sounded killer. People loved it.  I haven’t heard those 901s, since then, but I loved them.  The Bose of today is not the same thing. 

Remember how Hi Fi excited you as a teenager.  Hearing a system that blew your mind for the first time.  Miss those days.  Thanks for the memory trigger. 

Gumby

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #33 on: 4 Feb 2019, 09:48 pm »
ROLLO

Nicely put.  I use hockey pucks under all my gear.  Inexpensive and I like the look.


dflee

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #34 on: 4 Feb 2019, 10:14 pm »
So do ya have to freeze em to get em to work properly?

Don

Gumby

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #35 on: 4 Feb 2019, 11:05 pm »
DLEE

Yes, throw them in a pot of dry ice for half hour before listening. 

Stu Pitt

Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #36 on: 7 Feb 2019, 06:03 pm »
I don’t buy into the whole line of thinking that poorly recorded music sounds better on a lower/bad system. Crap doesn’t cover up crap and make it less crappy. Listening to well recorded music on a good system and bad recordings on a bad system sounds equally nonsensical to me.

I’ve never cared for the “audiophile music.” It bores me. It puts me to sleep. Most of the stuff I listen to would be stuff audio snobs would turn their nose up to. I’ve had a salesman or two tell me there’s no point in spending money on a good system because my music is going to sound like crap no matter what I play it through. Neither one of them got a dime from me.

I’ve got a Bryston B60, Rega DAC, Project 1Xpression with Dynavector 10x5, and Audio Physic Yara Evolution monitors. Very good and revealing. About 90% of what I listen to is classic rock like Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, thrash metal like Metallica and Anthrax, and 90s grunge like Nirvana and Pearl Jam. The other 10% is rap/hip hop and my daughters’ music while they’re dancing around.

All my stuff sounds better. Sounds far better than my warm and smoothed over NAD and PSB system. According to some people (in this thread too), it should sound best on my iPod, almost as good in my car, the NAD/PSB system should’ve sounded worse, and it should be unlistenable through my current system.

I guess I should sell off my system.

Side note - even the worst of the worst recordings sound better. I don’t think there’s a worse recording out there than the Misfits Collection 1. It makes Metallica’s St Anger sound like Dark Side of the Moon. Yet both of those albums sound better on my system than my iPod.

rollo

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #37 on: 7 Feb 2019, 06:22 pm »
So do ya have to freeze em to get em to work properly?

Don

  Oh Don. No but you need to put one in freezer.  :lol: :lol: Stu have I got lots of LPs for you. Just do not listen to them any longer. Now Cleassical, Jazz and Da Blues.


charles

Freo-1

Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #38 on: 8 Feb 2019, 02:03 am »
  If a lot of rock, pop, new music , is recorded and mastered at a poor to average quality, then wouldn’t an entry level affordable System, sound better than a High-end, very Revealing Neutral  expensive System?


In a word, no.  A better system can and does often make all recordings sound better, even recordings that were not captured well.


My experience is that the speakers far and away make the largest difference with playback, along with the room that the speakers are playing music in.  Case in point:  My general purpose system has a pair of large German floorstanding speakers (T+A Criterion 160). They are very efficient (mid 90's at 1 watt), get down to 20 Hz, and they sound great.  I've tried a number of electronics with them, from a Yamaha receiver to current Mcintosh offerings (MCT80, D150, MC152), to custom tube preamp/power amps.  There is a noticeable improvement when stepping up from the Yamaha to the Mcintosh or tube amps, but the speakers still sound very good even with the Yamaha receiver (better than one would expect). 


The Mcintosh front end has a I2S interface from the MCT80 to the D150.  The improvement in sound quality is readily picked up by the listener with all recordings, from CD's that were not recorded well, all the way up to SACD which is processed via bitstrem from the MCT80 to the D150.   The MC152 is a very neutral and detailed power amp.  Although it is rated at 150 watts, it's actually more like a 200 watt amp.   


The major point is that when putting together a system, get the speakers sorted out IN YOUR listening environment.  Once that is achieved, the electronics selected should be based on one's budget that will drive the speakers to the user's desired listening levels. 




G E

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Re: Go with Unrevealing Warm Hi Fi or Revealing Neutral Hi Fi
« Reply #39 on: 9 Feb 2019, 05:41 pm »
Great thread.

A system I had for many years featured Infinity Kappa 8 speakers and van Alstine electronics from the 1990’s.

Very musical and engaging and I listened for hours on end. Production quality of music did not seem to matter too much to my enjoyment.

But resolution of detail wasn’t so great. I heard things when listening in the car that I wasn’t getting in Man Cave #1.  So I set embarked on a major update. Major unhappiness followed as I tried to find the right path.

I got more detail but the midrange was hard and the highs could be piercing with the more poorly produced recordings.  Amps came and went. A van Alstine upgrade sounded awful.  I moved the Kappas to the rear channels replacing them with VMPS rm30 speakers up front.  Big improvement in resolution but didn’t draw me into the music.

Replaced amp with bryston 4bsst2 and it gave me more oomph but not happy with midrange. New morrow ICs and speaker cable provided a touch of honey but still not home.

I’d always wondered what it would be like to have 28’s in my system. And when one presses into their 6th decade of life on earth, one decides it’s now or never.

So I found a great pair on the used market and holy schmoley what a transformation!  Boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, it was a WOW!!!! Moment and experience.

Along the way I abandoned digital playback and this has only heightened my enjoyment.  Well tempered Amadeus turntable. And last summer I made another dream come true when I got Hagermans Trumpet phono preamp. I tubed up with 1950’s vintage Mullard.

Perfect sound now?  No, crappy records still sound crappy but less so. But with my current equipment and acoustic treatment of room I can have incredible listening experiences and lesser material doesn’t end the session.

BTW, if there are any fans of The Blue Note Jazz records, Music Matters Jazz has reissued a bunch of them and they are the best sounding reproductions of music I have ever heard since my days of professional tape recorders at the radio station. Most highly recommended.

And thanks, Elizabeth, for starting this thread.