[mresseguie]

 

The palm to forehead guy is telling you I've created a headache for myself/painted myself into a corner, etc. I probably know how to fix my problem, but I'm open to suggestions from you all. There are a lot of fine people here whose opinions I respect.

I'm in my vacation home in Taiwan right now. I have two amps (Nuprime ST-10, Takachi case 1200as2 amp), two DACs (Gustard X20u, dB Audio Labs Tranquility SE), no preamp, and a pair of great sounding, but very low sensitivity Fritz LS/5-R two-way monitors.

The ST-10 has XLR and RCA inputs; the Takachi is XLR only. The Gustard is XLR/RCA out; the Tranquility is RCA only.

The Gustard has volume control whereas the Tranquility does not.

I can use the Gustard with either amp, but the Tranquility can only be used with the ST-10.

I love how the LS/5-R speakers sound, but they lack lower bass. Adding a subwoofer would fix this, but then I'd need a preamp.

I brought the Tranquility with me (last week) thinking that it would replace my Gustard. Even though I don't have my D Sachs preamp here, I can use the volume control in Tidal to adjust volume - or so I thought. There is so much gain in the ST-10, that I must set the Tidal volume at its lowest setting to listen at a comfortable (and WAF safe) level. Some tracks are louder than others. When a loud track is played, the music is uncomfortably loud with no way to turn it down. The Gustard does not have this problem because it has volume control.

I envision several fixes - some better than others; some require my spending more money while some save me money.

1) Sell the Gustard and one of the amps; buy a preamplifier. I can buy a locally made preamp (tube), buy an imported preamp (SS), or (my favorite) buy a gently used D Sachs Model 2 to bring back next year. Buy a sub.
2) Sell one of the amps and take my Tranquility back to Oregon. Don't buy a preamp. Don't buy a sub.
3) Sell both amps and the Gustard; take the Tranquility back to Oregon, buy an integrated amp such as Nuprime IDA-16 (or the new 32?), or other brand, and buy a sub. [This is the KISS approach - Keep It Simple Stupid!]
4) Forget about the lower bass frequencies and just enjoy the *&^%$#@! music - don't buy a sub. #4 does not preclude the #1 through #3.
5) Replace my two-way monitors with three-way floor standing speakers; forget the sub, and choose 1, 2, or 3.
6) My flat is on the fourth floor....open a window and chuck everything out the window at 3 am. Start over.

And, yes, I need to buy acoustic panels and/or diffusors. I finally found a place that sells them in Taiwan without over-charging.

Hopefully, I haven't omitted anything of importance, and I've been reasonably clear. I'm open to ideas and suggestions.

Fire away.

Michael

[JohnR]

Maybe something like this would do the trick - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KH805--neumann-kh-805-10-inch-powered-studio-subwoofer

[opnly bafld]

If the Gustard has a volume control you can use a sub with it.

[Early B.]

Sell everything and start over. It makes no sense to have a system that's missing two essential components -- preamp and sub. Geez, man. We're gonna consider revoking your audiophile club membership.   

[JackD]

Sell the Takachi and both DAC's unless you need the Tranquility in the US and buy a DAC-10 to pair with the ST-10.  Two birds with one stone then decide about locally sourced sub or new speakers. 

[mresseguie]

Maybe something like this would do the trick - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KH805--neumann-kh-805-10-inch-powered-studio-subwoofer

Hi, John.

Thanks for that suggestion. I'm not sure how to make its connections work. Input is XLR and output is also XLR.  How would it fit into my system?

Sell the Takachi and both DAC's unless you need the Tranquility in the US and buy a DAC-10 to pair with the ST-10.  Two birds with one stone then decide about locally sourced sub or new speakers. 

The Tranquility makes sweet music, so I will make every effort to keep it in one or another system.

Sell everything and start over. It makes no sense to have a system that's missing two essential components -- preamp and sub. Geez, man. We're gonna consider revoking your audiophile club membership.   

 

If the Gustard has a volume control you can use a sub with it.

I thought I'd read this somewhere, yet the email conversation I had with a subwoofer manufacturer seemed to preclude this method. I'll ask again to see if it's doable with that particular subwoofer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My initial plan was to buy one (possibly two) Rythmik F8 subs and take delivery in Taiwan. I'd save on shipping, but pay a bit on import duties (21%). That might end up costing about $2300 (WAG). I'm pretty certain I'd need to have a preamp to make this idea work. Another idea was to hire someone Stateside to redesign my speakers' XOs to support an 8" or 10" woofer. Hire a guy in Taiwan (who I recently found after a three-year search!) to build the woofer cabinets, add a little DIY elbow grease with the result that I'd have three-way floorstanding speakers. [This sounds like a lot of work to acquire floorstanding speakers.]

There have been several ideas that I generally have dismissed as impractical in real life, but possible in my fantasy world. 

[JohnR]

Hi, John.

Thanks for that suggestion. I'm not sure how to make its connections work. Input is XLR and output is also XLR.  How would it fit into my system?

XLR from Gustard to KH 805, XLR from KH 805 to amp. I've not used one but Neumann is a no-nonsense company and you asked for suggestions Also I'd imagine it might be possible for you to get one locally (or not, dunno). Crossover is fixed at 80 Hz but there's full phase control to help with integration. I'm assuming you don't have a huge space to fill (apartment, 5" monitors)?

FYI user manual is here: https://en-de.neumann.com/product_files/2033/download

I'm not suggesting you necessarily get this one, just suggesting this type of solution

[JLM]

I bought a pair of PreSonus T10 professional subs (10 inch driver, ported, A/B amp) from Sweetwater for $400 that are smaller than the KH sub.  They can be connected in the same way (lots of connection options).  I connect each to a PS Audio DirectStream Junior DAC/preamp/streamer and then to my JBL 708P active monitors.  BTW I have a 3rd sub in the room for distributed bass sourcing and just hooked up a Small Green Computer i5 sonic transport server.

[Letitroll98]

This is not at all difficult.   Buy the locally sourced preamp, one that has dual outputs so you can opt for the sub with easy connections.  Sell the items you don't use.  Listen to the system.  If you still want a sub, buy one with the funds from the sale, if not put said money in pocket.  Live life, enjoy.

On a separate note, low bass is a two edged sword.  It can improve the overall experience in tone, impact, and soundstaging.  It can also cause problems with in room frequency response, and you have neighbors.  Thus why I suggest listening to the config before buying the sub.

[Tyson]

I'd get a tubed preamp plus a monster SS amp and no sub.  Low efficiency speakers really need an amp with balls and massive power to come alive. 

[TabCam]

The palm to forehead guy is telling you I've created a headache for myself/painted myself into a corner, etc. I probably know how to fix my problem, but I'm open to suggestions from you all. There are a lot of fine people here whose opinions I respect.

I'm in my vacation home in Taiwan right now. I have two amps (Nuprime ST-10, Takachi case 1200as2 amp), two DACs (Gustard X20u, dB Audio Labs Tranquility SE), no preamp, and a pair of great sounding, but very low sensitivity Fritz LS/5-R two-way monitors.

The ST-10 has XLR and RCA inputs; the Takachi is XLR only. The Gustard is XLR/RCA out; the Tranquility is RCA only.

The Gustard has volume control whereas the Tranquility does not.

I can use the Gustard with either amp, but the Tranquility can only be used with the ST-10.

I love how the LS/5-R speakers sound, but they lack lower bass. Adding a subwoofer would fix this, but then I'd need a preamp.

I brought the Tranquility with me (last week) thinking that it would replace my Gustard. Even though I don't have my D Sachs preamp here, I can use the volume control in Tidal to adjust volume - or so I thought. There is so much gain in the ST-10, that I must set the Tidal volume at its lowest setting to listen at a comfortable (and WAF safe) level. Some tracks are louder than others. When a loud track is played, the music is uncomfortably loud with no way to turn it down. The Gustard does not have this problem because it has volume control.

I envision several fixes - some better than others; some require my spending more money while some save me money.

1) Sell the Gustard and one of the amps; buy a preamplifier. I can buy a locally made preamp (tube), buy an imported preamp (SS), or (my favorite) buy a gently used D Sachs Model 2 to bring back next year. Buy a sub.
2) Sell one of the amps and take my Tranquility back to Oregon. Don't buy a preamp. Don't buy a sub.
3) Sell both amps and the Gustard; take the Tranquility back to Oregon, buy an integrated amp such as Nuprime IDA-16 (or the new 32?), or other brand, and buy a sub. [This is the KISS approach - Keep It Simple Stupid!]
4) Forget about the lower bass frequencies and just enjoy the *&^%$#@! music - don't buy a sub. #4 does not preclude the #1 through #3.
5) Replace my two-way monitors with three-way floor standing speakers; forget the sub, and choose 1, 2, or 3.
6) My flat is on the fourth floor....open a window and chuck everything out the window at 3 am. Start over.

And, yes, I need to buy acoustic panels and/or diffusors. I finally found a place that sells them in Taiwan without over-charging.

Hopefully, I haven't omitted anything of importance, and I've been reasonably clear. I'm open to ideas and suggestions.

Fire away.

Michael

You already say you want to change a lot. It depends a lot on what is causing the unnaturalness. If the LS/5-R is a Fritz, Maybe the Nuforce is underpowered. An 83 dB speaker (if I am right??) needs a lot more than 150 W to make it sing, I reckon. Caveat, I do not know the Nuforce ST-10 nor how it sounds.

If it is a question of pairing, use a good (>200W) integrated AB amp to check if that brings them to life. You have previously appraised them so with what setup was that? I would try this before more drastic options.

If you are going to change your set, start with the speakers. Nowadays I would go for more efficient (>91dB) natural sounding ones. As you are currenly in Taiwan, you could also look out for (used) Ushers. They are punching well above their class for a wide variety of music but require adequate amplification.

[mresseguie]

Hello, TabCam.

Are you in Taiwan? 你在台灣嗎？

Nuforce was bought out by Optoma Taiwan. Part of the original company remained with Jason Lim and is now called Nuprime. Nuprime's factory is in Kaoshiung (高雄) and the headquarters is located in Taipei. My Nuprime ST-10 is different from the Nuforce amplifiers.

I did shop Usher speakers, but decided they're not really what I'm looking for (or they're too big for my living room). However, there is another Taiwan speaker manufacturer (雷爾斯) that makes very nice sounding and high efficiency speakers. (Link: http://lals-audio.com.tw/product/index.asp ) I have a friend in Bade (八德) who owns a pair of the Neo-classical 12" speakers. They sound very good. Unfortunately, switching to high efficiency speakers won't correct my current issue; it would only exasperate the issue.

The Takachi 1200AS2 amp is 600w/ch into 8ohm. It's more than powerful enough to power my speakers. I think I will take the amp to THL Audio (唐竹音響) in Taipei to have the XLR changed to RCA in. Then, I expect to sell the Gustard and, perhaps, the ST-10. I may already have a buyer for the Gustard.

If I want to keep my dB Audio Labs DAC in Taiwan, I quite likely must add a preamplifier.

For the time being, I'd not going to worry about adding a sub. I must first determine whether I want to add a locally sold (or locally manufactured) preamplifier, or if I want to bring one in my luggage from the US. There's a shop in Taoyuan that expects to have a used ARC preamp in about 3 weeks. If the price is reasonable, I may try that.

我在桃園的國際路和文中路口附近。

Michael

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I see a couple of good options, consider a sub with speaker level inputs.  The other which I think may be the best is to get a
Schiit audio passive volume control. 

http://www.schiit.com/products/sys

If you want a sub and don't want to go with speaker level inputs, then consider and RCA splitter.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-7sviEpEZ1J0/shopsearch/rca_splitter.html?XVINQ=DST&XVVER=AAA&awcp=1t2&awcr=164108129967&awdv=c&awkw=&awmt=b&awnw=g&awug=9019558&gclid=CjwKCAiAo8jgBRAVEiwAJUXKqCXkm7e3NjoK1cq594MnWq0Ek1lPwdRy1wN6q4YonlMAbwq81nyTiRoCaNwQAvD_BwE

I hope this helps,

Larry

[mresseguie]

I see a couple of good options, consider a sub with speaker level inputs.  The other which I think may be the best is to get a
Schiit audio passive volume control. 

http://www.schiit.com/products/sys

I hope this helps,

Larry

Holy Schiit! This looks like it will work. Shucks. I won't even mind paying the 21% import duty to get it here. Shipping may be almost as much as the $49 Sys, but the total price will still be a thousand or two less than buying a preamp. I'll check around here to see if there's anything similar that is locally made and reasonably priced first before committing to it.

Thank you, Larry. I didn't know Schiit made this. 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Glad to help.  At that price there is very little risk.  There is a thread on the AS forum on it.

[TabCam]

Hello, TabCam.

Are you in Taiwan? 你在台灣嗎？

Nuforce was bought out by Optoma Taiwan. Part of the original company remained with Jason Lim and is now called Nuprime. Nuprime's factory is in Kaoshiung (高雄) and the headquarters is located in Taipei. My Nuprime ST-10 is different from the Nuforce amplifiers.

I did shop Usher speakers, but decided they're not really what I'm looking for (or they're too big for my living room). However, there is another Taiwan speaker manufacturer (雷爾斯) that makes very nice sounding and high efficiency speakers. (Link: http://lals-audio.com.tw/product/index.asp ) I have a friend in Bade (八德) who owns a pair of the Neo-classical 12" speakers. They sound very good. Unfortunately, switching to high efficiency speakers won't correct my current issue; it would only exasperate the issue.

The Takachi 1200AS2 amp is 600w/ch into 8ohm. It's more than powerful enough to power my speakers. I think I will take the amp to THL Audio (唐竹音響) in Taipei to have the XLR changed to RCA in. Then, I expect to sell the Gustard and, perhaps, the ST-10. I may already have a buyer for the Gustard.

If I want to keep my dB Audio Labs DAC in Taiwan, I quite likely must add a preamplifier.

For the time being, I'd not going to worry about adding a sub. I must first determine whether I want to add a locally sold (or locally manufactured) preamplifier, or if I want to bring one in my luggage from the US. There's a shop in Taoyuan that expects to have a used ARC preamp in about 3 weeks. If the price is reasonable, I may try that.

我在桃園的國際路和文中路口附近。

Michael

Hi Michael,

No, I live at the other side of the globe, in the Netherlands. I have the Usher mini Dancer 2 mkII which are not requireing as much space as their bigger brothers. See that the Schitt passive volume control aready provides an easy way to solve part of the equation.

I would hardly consider converting XLR to RCA. Maybe only when they actively convert an unbalanced signal to balanced signal. You could check if a passive adapter provides enogh SQ. Not the best solution but like the passive volume control, cheap to test. And if you change preamp, why not buy a balanced one?

[mresseguie]

Tabcam,

Hahaha. Surely, I jumped to a 5000 mile conclusion on your whereabouts.  Silly me. 

I located a Schiit distributor in Taipei City who I plan to call tomorrow. Hopefully, he'll have inventory on hand. The changing XLR to RCA that I mentioned was not a simple adapter. It would involve opening the case; removing the XLR harness and replacing it with a new RCA harness and RCA connectors in the back plate of the amp.

Another option has presented itself in the last 12 hours. An audiophile friend gave me a free ticket to an audio show this weekend. One of the rooms will be hosted by a Taiwanese tube amp manufacturer whose company I actually toured a couple years ago. For the show, they're offering to sell 5 discounted preamps (5AR4 x 1 rectifier, 6922 x 4) that can be had for ~$1100 USD. Its regular price is approximately $1600 USD. It's RCA out - no XLR. I'll be there this Saturday, so I will stop by to chat with the demonstrator. Perhaps, other options will show themselves at the show.

Michael

[mresseguie]

Well, I committed to one improvement for my audio system at the Taipei Audio show today. I bought a tube preamp from the vendor/manufacturer that I toured about three years ago. This is a 6922 x4; 5AR4 x1 rectifier preamp for a tad under $1200 USD. I'll take delivery in about one week. This will allow me to connect my dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC. I've been listening with my Gustard X20u, which sounds fine, but I'm looking forward to the Tranquility's warmer/tubier sound.

Here's my new preamp:
http://www.kcr.com.tw/archive/image/customization/3055.jpg