Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?

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yakbob

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I have an admittedly dumb question...I'm currently connecting my M3TS using banana connectors, and have some of the 12AWG Duelund wire on order which I intend to connect bare wire. This is my first go-round with the WBT connectors and I noticed they lack the post hole typically found on other posts. My initial thought is to loop the end of the wire (as if you were wiring an electrical switch) and tighten down. I have some concerns not using a more solid connection since this speaker pair gets moved (back and forth towards the wall) almost daily.

Are there other connection options that would be more secure without degrading the sound, or is there a trick to securely mounting bare wire to the WBT posts?
Thanks for any advice.

toocool4

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #1 on: 7 Nov 2018, 01:54 pm »
Why don’t you want to use banana plugs or spades?
Just having bare-wires and having to move the speakers back and forth is just asking for trouble.

Elizabeth

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #2 on: 7 Nov 2018, 02:07 pm »
I totally have to agree that the situation is just asking/ BEGGING for trouble.
Either change the posts to ones with holes. or add spades.
One way to do spades and STILL have bare wire is to leave the longer stripped off bare wire sticking out the spade end, past the crimp zone, and split it in two. So the BARE WIRE is trapped under the WBT connector on top of the spade. Then you have the security of the spade, and the bare wire still going right to the post.
I have done this in the past.

jriggy

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #3 on: 7 Nov 2018, 02:34 pm »
Why don’t you want to use banana plugs or spades?
Just having bare-wires and having to move the speakers back and forth is just asking for trouble.
Because it has been reported that the Duelund tinned-copper wire, when used as speaker cables, sounds best as bare wire.

yakbob

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #4 on: 7 Nov 2018, 02:36 pm »
Thank you both for your thoughts.
Elizabeth, I especially like your split wire/spade solution and will consider that.

Honestly, I'd prefer to keep some sort of mechanical termination. I suppose it's easy enough to see how much the sound is affected using either solution.

 :thumb:

Goosepond

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #5 on: 7 Nov 2018, 03:59 pm »
Are you handy with a drill!!! :green:

Gene

DaveC113

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #6 on: 7 Nov 2018, 04:23 pm »
A crimp or set-screw makes a better connection vs bare wire to binding post, and a spade to binding post makes a better connection vs bare wire as well.

None of this is really a big deal as long as connections are kept clean and tight, but imo spades are better than bare wire for both quality of connection as well as durability and maintenance. The quality of connection and it's resistance is more likely to be repeatable and the same from left to right.

RDavidson

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #7 on: 7 Nov 2018, 04:51 pm »
Agree with Dave. The consistently good mechanical connection a spade provides (and subsequently good electrical connection) vs bent strands (or solid) wires or the wide range of mechanical tolerance that bananas can have when used in any variety of binding posts, makes complete sense. The only thing I don't like about spades is that they sometimes don't always fit well on posts. I wish this was completely standardized, at least for audio applications.

toocool4

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #8 on: 7 Nov 2018, 05:13 pm »
Because it has been reported that the Duelund tinned-copper wire, when used as speaker cables, sounds best as bare wire.

It’s been reported.... have you tried it yourself? If so can you hear a big difference?

jriggy

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #9 on: 7 Nov 2018, 07:22 pm »
It’s been reported.... have you tried it yourself? If so can you hear a big difference?

I’m not the OP and was simply filling in the reason why one would be wanting to try the Duelund bare-wire connected. If you read the thread you’ll see the OP say: “ I suppose it’s easy enough to see how much the sound is affected using either solution.

How ‘bout you try it and let us know.   

toocool4

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #10 on: 7 Nov 2018, 08:53 pm »
I’m not the OP and was simply filling in the reason why one would be wanting to try the Duelund bare-wire connected. If you read the thread you’ll see the OP say: “ I suppose it’s easy enough to see how much the sound is affected using either solution.

How ‘bout you try it and let us know.

I did read the OP's question, but i was just interested in your reply as you posted "Because it has been reported that the Duelund tinned-copper wire, when used as speaker cables, sounds best as bare wire." was wondering if you had tried what you posted.

No i cannot try it as my Spectral cables are terminated with spades already. One thing i can say about this kind of subtle differences are i use Furutech rhodium connectors on the end of my headphones and i can hear the difference between rhodium and gold. I like the rhodium better.

charmerci

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #11 on: 7 Nov 2018, 08:57 pm »
A crimp or set-screw makes a better connection vs bare wire to binding post, and a spade to binding post makes a better connection vs bare wire as well.

None of this is really a big deal as long as connections are kept clean and tight, but imo spades are better than bare wire for both quality of connection as well as durability and maintenance. The quality of connection and it's resistance is more likely to be repeatable and the same from left to right.


Assuming that soldering the bare wire to the spades is best.

yakbob

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #12 on: 7 Nov 2018, 09:03 pm »
I will try both bare wire, and using the locking bananas I have on hand (cheap, high mass, gold plated brass...the worst) to see if there is any noticeable difference in sound and will report back.

Of course I run the risk of being labeled either a system tweaker who drinks snake oil by the bucket, or a tin-eared audiofool whose system doesn't offer enough resolution to hear the difference.  :lol:

If no difference, I'm running the bananas for security.

toocool4

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #13 on: 7 Nov 2018, 09:15 pm »
I will try both bare wire, and using the locking bananas I have on hand (cheap, high mass, gold plated brass...the worst) to see if there is any noticeable difference in sound and will report back.

Of course I run the risk of being labeled either a system tweaker who drinks snake oil by the bucket, or a tin-eared audiofool whose system doesn't offer enough resolution to hear the difference.  :lol:

If no difference, I'm running the bananas for security.

Don't worry what people say, just give it a try and you will find out for yourself  8)

jriggy

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #14 on: 8 Nov 2018, 03:36 am »
I did read the OP's question, but i was just interested in your reply as you posted "Because it has been reported that the Duelund tinned-copper wire, when used as speaker cables, sounds best as bare wire." was wondering if you had tried what you posted.

No i cannot try it as my Spectral cables are terminated with spades already. One thing i can say about this kind of subtle differences are i use Furutech rhodium connectors on the end of my headphones and i can hear the difference between rhodium and gold. I like the rhodium better.

You asked why the OP would want to try Duelund wire without spades or bananas, so I was answering that question. I could copy and bolden your words but that would be...well, nevermind.

I don’t see what the termination of your Spectra cables has to do with trying Duelund wire bare. Other wire may sound better or worse with no termination but the reports I was referring to, that the OP is obviously aware of (hence they’re original statement) is Duelund specific. They’re quite afortable. Give it a try yourself....  and report.


toocool4

Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #15 on: 8 Nov 2018, 07:58 am »
You asked why the OP would want to try Duelund wire without spades or bananas, so I was answering that question. I could copy and bolden your words but that would be...well, nevermind.

I don’t see what the termination of your Spectra cables has to do with trying Duelund wire bare. Other wire may sound better or worse with no termination but the reports I was referring to, that the OP is obviously aware of (hence they’re original statement) is Duelund specific. They’re quite afortable. Give it a try yourself....  and report.

I don't need to try, i am happy with my Spectral cables.

CSI

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #16 on: 8 Nov 2018, 05:22 pm »
In my checkered audio career I worked for two different (and well known) wire manufacturers. One leaned toward the bare wire approach whenever practical and advised a very snug "gas tight" connection. The other preferred well fitting banana plugs or spades with a lot of contact area so as to maximize contact surface. You pays your money and takes your choice.

DaveC113

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Re: Stupid question alert: WBT binding posts and bare wire?
« Reply #17 on: 8 Nov 2018, 07:24 pm »
In my checkered audio career I worked for two different (and well known) wire manufacturers. One leaned toward the bare wire approach whenever practical and advised a very snug "gas tight" connection. The other preferred well fitting banana plugs or spades with a lot of contact area so as to maximize contact surface. You pays your money and takes your choice.

You're not getting a gas tight connection w/binding post and bare wire.

The biggest issue with bare wire is mechanical degradation and corrosion of the wire. Wire can't be bent infinite times and it will corrode, so you 'll need to periodically remove the wire and clean it, which will involve bending it. After so many bend cycles it'll need to be cut off and re-stripped. Not many people will actually do this. If the cable is multi-stranded it can be a larger PITA to re-strip it. Connectors are simply easier to use, require less maintenance, make better contact w/ the post.

The only downsides to using connectors are cost. This is where spades are clearly better, you can get gold plated pure copper spades for just a few bucks via DH Labs. They are thin and won't last forever, but spending more would get you Furutech spades, which are very thick and have much better quality plating as well, and with rhodium plating it's much harder and more durable vs gold. Similar quality bananas cost more.