Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT

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OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #20 on: 22 Oct 2018, 10:31 pm »
Ok so for the Beovox CX100 I would like the modifications to achieve the following...

1) Improvement in Dynamics.

2) Slightly better treble extension (less roll off).

3) No reduction in bass.

4) More bass would be welcomed (please advise me on fitting bass reflex tube or tubes).

5) Greater increase in transparency.

6) Greater increase in 3d holographic imaging.

Finally please recommend which hookup wire I need to purchase from you to completely rewire them internally.

DS-21

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #21 on: 23 Oct 2018, 02:21 am »
Ok so for the Beovox CX100 I would like the modifications to achieve the following...

1) Improvement in Dynamics.

2) Slightly better treble extension (less roll off).

3) No reduction in bass.

4) More bass would be welcomed (please advise me on fitting bass reflex tube or tubes).

5) Greater increase in transparency.

6) Greater increase in 3d holographic imaging.

Finally please recommend which hookup wire I need to purchase from you to completely rewire them internally.

IOW, you want to:
-reengineer the crossover (NOT just play the same circuit, fancy parts game - that kind of deaf-man's game won't get you ANYWHERE towards your goals)
-possibly upgrade the drivers
-perhaps brace (or damp) the cabinet a bit.

Hasn't B&O released some sort of active modernization for these speakers? You know, REAL potential improvements: streaming into DSP controller into multiple tailored amplifiers.

"Hookup wire" won't get you anywhere near your goals.

S Clark

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #22 on: 23 Oct 2018, 02:52 am »
Yep, realizing what he wants to accomplish from a set of mid fi B&O speakers, the best bet is to send one to Danny and have him design a crossover.  The parts will not be cheap, but not exorbitant, and you'll get the absolute most from the drivers and cabinet.  A cap and some wire isn't going to get it done.

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #23 on: 23 Oct 2018, 03:14 am »
We need to remember that I am intending to use these speakers for a home cinema (not a state of the art 2 channel hifi). Secondly; they are still damn good sounding speakers for hifi use, even before the modifications (equivalent to $1000 modern day monitors). I am simply looking to give them a significant boost in movie playback performance through Jeff’s modification suggestions. My aim is to get a realistic cinema sound.

S Clark

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #24 on: 23 Oct 2018, 03:56 am »
OK, best of luck.   

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #25 on: 23 Oct 2018, 10:39 am »
Thanks I'm looking forward to the end result.

Jeff

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #26 on: 23 Oct 2018, 08:24 pm »
Jeff,
       OK so I have no choice but to use the CX100 in a vertical dispersion configuration. I will not turn them over onto their sides. As for my opinion of the sound quality of these speakers in an unmodified state; I mostly agree with your assesment over the telephone where you described the sonic signature as mostly Neutral, but with a slightly soft treble. However I do not agree that they are laid back. To my ears they are not Laidback and they are not Forward. I would class them as walking the fine tightrope between the two. You also critiqued them as lacking in Dynamics.

My apologies for my miscommunication.  I was expressing that your speaker would lean towards the relaxed side ("laid back"), and be a bit wanting for dynamics when used for an HT.  Of course, we are getting down to opinions and taste here.  However, you seemed to agree with the rest of my assessment.  Since you are willing to stand them upright, I'm willing to make a parts recommendation that will lean towards your desired result.

1, 2, 3, 5, and 6) Replace C1 with a http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/gen-sonicap-68-uf-200vdc-p-443, and confirm the small coil is an air core.

4) Increased output in the bottom two octaves will not be improved with a modified alignment.  At least not for what you are after.  Your 4" drivers are just not capable of moving the air at volume.  This will require special attention to your sub selection.

Replace the Purple and White wire with http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-silver-in-teflon-23-awg-red-p-1879/http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-silver-in-teflon-23-awg-white-p-1582.  Replace the Yellow and Orange wire with http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-copper-in-teflon-18-awg-red-p-1580.  Replace the Black and Red with http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-copper-in-pvc-16-awg-yellow-p-1591.  Solder the terminal side of the cap directly to the input terminal "without" jumpering off the large coil.  At the same time, solder the new 16ga wire that replaces the old Black wire to the same terminal.  Leave enough lead on the terminal side of the cap to solder the new 18ga wire that replaces the old Yellow wire.  You do not want to solder the wire right next to the cap.  You want enough lead to place a heat sink between the joint and the cap if necessary.  Solder the 18ga replacement for the Orange wire to the tinned part of the lead on the small coil just before it connects to the larger coil.  Solder the 23ga White wire replacement directly to the appropriate side of the cap like you did with the 18ga on the other end of the cap.

Clean your solder joints well before and after.  Make good mechanical connections before making good solder joints.  Shorter lengths of wire is usually better, but leave enough slack for unstrained assembly.  Further, I would leave/add the necessary 8-12% of length to make a twisted pair of the two leads that go to the tweeter, and the 18ga leads going to the mid.  Lastly, be sure you have marked and followed proper polarity.

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #27 on: 23 Oct 2018, 11:32 pm »
My apologies for my miscommunication.  I was expressing that your speaker would lean towards the relaxed side ("laid back"), and be a bit wanting for dynamics when used for an HT.  Of course, we are getting down to opinions and taste here.  However, you seemed to agree with the rest of my assessment.  Since you are willing to stand them upright, I'm willing to make a parts recommendation that will lean towards your desired result.

1, 2, 3, 5, and 6) Replace C1 with a http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/gen-sonicap-68-uf-200vdc-p-443, and confirm the small coil is an air core.

4) Increased output in the bottom two octaves will not be improved with a modified alignment.  At least not for what you are after.  Your 4" drivers are just not capable of moving the air at volume.  This will require special attention to your sub selection.

Replace the Purple and White wire with http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-silver-in-teflon-23-awg-red-p-1879/http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-silver-in-teflon-23-awg-white-p-1582.  Replace the Yellow and Orange wire with http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-copper-in-teflon-18-awg-red-p-1580.  Replace the Black and Red with http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-solid-upocc-copper-in-pvc-16-awg-yellow-p-1591.  Solder the terminal side of the cap directly to the input terminal "without" jumpering off the large coil.  At the same time, solder the new 16ga wire that replaces the old Black wire to the same terminal.  Leave enough lead on the terminal side of the cap to solder the new 18ga wire that replaces the old Yellow wire.  You do not want to solder the wire right next to the cap.  You want enough lead to place a heat sink between the joint and the cap if necessary.  Solder the 18ga replacement for the Orange wire to the tinned part of the lead on the small coil just before it connects to the larger coil.  Solder the 23ga White wire replacement directly to the appropriate side of the cap like you did with the 18ga on the other end of the cap.

Clean your solder joints well before and after.  Make good mechanical connections before making good solder joints.  Shorter lengths of wire is usually better, but leave enough slack for unstrained assembly.  Further, I would leave/add the necessary 8-12% of length to make a twisted pair of the two leads that go to the tweeter, and the 18ga leads going to the mid.  Lastly, be sure you have marked and followed proper polarity.



Ok Jeff. Yes the small coil is definitely an ‘Air Core Inductor’.

I would just like to confirm your directions. Please correct me if I am wrong...

1) REMOVE THE OLD RED WIRE SOLDERED ONTO THE MIDDLE TAB OF THE LARGE COIL. REPLACE IT WITH RED NEOTECH 16AWG WIRE.

2) BOTH LEADS OF THE SONICAP GEN I ARE NOT SOLDERED ONTO THE TABS OF THE LARGE COIL.

3) SOLDER THE WHITE NEOTECH 23AWG WIRE ONTO THE END OF THE SONICAP LEAD.

4) THE PURPLE NEOTECH 23AWG WIRE IS SOLDERED DIRECTLY ONTO THE POSITIVE INPUT TERMINAL.



Please confirm...


Jeff

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #28 on: 24 Oct 2018, 02:27 am »
1) Almost...  "REPLACE IT WITH (YELLOW) NEOTECH 16AWG WIRE".

2) It should be soldered to the Left side of the large coil where the White and Orange wire are presently connected.

3) Solder the 23ga Neotech wire (which replaces the White wire whether you are using Red or White Neotech wire) on to the lead (midway down) of the of the capacitor where it connects to the large coil.

4) Correct, or to a whisker from the cap lead after it is connected to the terminal.

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #29 on: 24 Oct 2018, 10:18 pm »
1) Almost...  "REPLACE IT WITH (YELLOW) NEOTECH 16AWG WIRE".

2) It should be soldered to the Left side of the large coil where the White and Orange wire are presently connected.

3) Solder the 23ga Neotech wire (which replaces the White wire whether you are using Red or White Neotech wire) on to the lead (midway down) of the of the capacitor where it connects to the large coil.

4) Correct, or to a whisker from the cap lead after it is connected to the terminal.

Jeff please confirm if the diagram is correct. Also, What air core do I need from you?

Jeff

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #30 on: 26 Oct 2018, 01:04 am »
Jeff please confirm if the diagram is correct.

With respect to the diagram you sent me:

-Purple wire will not be Purple anymore.  It will be Red (23g Neotech Silver/Teflon).

-The Yellow wire will not be Yellow anymore.  It will be Red (18g Neotech Copper/Teflon).   This wire will also connect to the capacitor lead half way between the body of the cap, and the Negative Input terminal.

-The White wire will connect to the other capacitor lead half way between the body of the cap, and the Left terminal on the large coil.

-The Orange wire will not be Orange anymore.  It will be Red (18g Neotech Copper/Teflon).   This wire will connect to the tinned part of the small coil lead connected to the Left side of the large coil.

-The Red and Black wire will no longer be those colors.  They will both be Yellow (16g Neotech Copper/PVC).

Quote
Also, What air core do I need from you?

None.  BTW, the large coil is not air core as labeled on your diagram.

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #31 on: 26 Oct 2018, 03:59 pm »
With respect to the diagram you sent me:

-Purple wire will not be Purple anymore.  It will be Red (23g Neotech Silver/Teflon).

-The Yellow wire will not be Yellow anymore.  It will be Red (18g Neotech Copper/Teflon).   This wire will also connect to the capacitor lead half way between the body of the cap, and the Negative Input terminal.

-The White wire will connect to the other capacitor lead half way between the body of the cap, and the Left terminal on the large coil.

-The Orange wire will not be Orange anymore.  It will be Red (18g Neotech Copper/Teflon).   This wire will connect to the tinned part of the small coil lead connected to the Left side of the large coil.

-The Red and Black wire will no longer be those colors.  They will both be Yellow (16g Neotech Copper/PVC).

None.  BTW, the large coil is not air core as labeled on your diagram.


Please confirm the corrected diagram I just emailed you. Also please let me know the value and brand of Coils which I need to purchase from you. I will be replacing all wire sleeves with pure cotton.
« Last Edit: 26 Oct 2018, 06:16 pm by OSIB16 »

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #32 on: 26 Oct 2018, 04:03 pm »


Jeff

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #33 on: 28 Oct 2018, 02:37 am »
Dan,

You do not need any coils.  The diagram appears correct.  And, I do not recommend cotton for these wires.

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #34 on: 28 Oct 2018, 11:36 am »
Dan,

You do not need any coils.  The diagram appears correct.  And, I do not recommend cotton for these wires.

Jeff what will happen if I use cotton sleeving? Will it introduce some kind of RFI interference?

Jeff

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #35 on: 28 Oct 2018, 06:57 pm »
The effect of cotton will not help you here, and it will allow that very pure Copper and Silver to rapidly oxidize.

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #36 on: 28 Oct 2018, 10:28 pm »
The effect of cotton will not help you here, and it will allow that very pure Copper and Silver to rapidly oxidize.

Ok, thanks for that. I’m nearly ready to place an order. The final thing that I need from you; is for you to let me know what parts are required to modify my Beovox CX50 (INCLUDING OPTIMAL COMPONENT LAYOUT). My  aim for this speaker is to achieve the following properties...

1) GREATER TRANSPARENCY.

2) BETTER IMAGING.

3) BIGGER SOUNDSTAGE.

4) HOLOGRAPHIC IMAGING.

5) NO ROUNDING OFF OF TREBLE.

6) NO INCREASE IN TREBLE SHARPNESS.


I will email you photos of the CX50 internal components.

Jeff

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #37 on: 28 Oct 2018, 10:48 pm »
I will email you photos of the CX50 internal components.

I'll keep an eye out for it  :wink:

Jeff

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #38 on: 4 Nov 2018, 07:30 pm »
Dan,

Use the same wire as above (23ag and 18cu).  Connect it to the same factory locations, but always make the best mechanical connection possible before soldering.  I'm recommending a cap that I have not launched.  It is more or less a production prototype.  http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/68uf200vdc-stage-p-5240  It is the right cap for your sonic request.

 

OSIB16

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Re: Bang & Olufsen Beovox 100 OVERHAUL PROJECT
« Reply #39 on: 4 Nov 2018, 10:17 pm »
Dan,

Use the same wire as above (23ag and 18cu).  Connect it to the same factory locations, but always make the best mechanical connection possible before soldering.  I'm recommending a cap that I have not launched.  It is more or less a production prototype.  http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/68uf200vdc-stage-p-5240  It is the right cap for your sonic request.


Ok thanks for that. However I’m going to be using somewhere between ‘seven’ to ‘nine’ Beovox CX50 speakers in my cinema system, so that means that I need to approximately ‘nine’ of those capacitors you recommended at $65 a pop. Thats on top of the ‘two’ Sonicap for the CX100 speakers. Bit too steep for me, so I think I’m going to have to plump for Sonicaps for all speakers. I was also wondering why you recommend 18AWG instead of 16AWG for the MidBass units on my CX50’s??