[wushuliu]

I have stepped away from audiophilia indefinitely but in the meantime I have decided to pursue a hobby that is even more awesome, and less divisive: PIZZA!

Here is part of a post I put up at a pizza forum:

Around 2010 or so I tried making pizzas at home, with mixed results and gave up quickly. Now I'm ready to give it another go; thankfully there are now several tables (dough calculators and portion charts) handy ie Lehmann, Yeast chart etc. that I don't remember being available before. This has made my re-entry much, much easier.

Backstory: Grew up in NJ, with fam in NYC and pizza was my favorite street food (okay tied with a Jamaican beef patty or a good NJ sub). This was in the 80s and early 90s. I don't remember any specific place. It was just the slice we'd grab at whatever joint was on the corner in Brooklyn, Manhattan, or NJ.

I've lived in different parts of the country since then: Minnesota, Los Angeles, and now Seattle. Minnesota has a couple fancy shmancy spots and even a decent NY-style pizzeria (Andrea's) that kept me going thru the harsh winters. Los Angeles has/had Johnny Rockets (?) which was good for a fix and The Coop in Culver City which was legit excellent when the right person was at the oven. Now I'm in Seattle and pizza costs like all kinds of crazy money. Bad enough I can't even find decent Chinese take-out (yes plenty of 'authentic' but sometimes I just want some chicken w/broccoli to go), but $25 for a 14-16" pie? That's not happenin'. Also my significant other can't eat dairy, so that makes things even more tricky.
 
So I set out about a month ago to try and replicate that slice as best as I could at home. I've made about 12-14 14" pies so far, and with each pie I'm learning more and more about what I'm looking for.

My goal: Modified NY-style street slice. Thin, salty, kind of floppy umami bomb. Softer bottom okay (just easier to digest).
 
Here are the parameters so far:

All the pies have been RT [Room Temperature fermented] except one or two. RT lengths of ~16hrs or same day 5-6hrs.
Home Oven: Temp 475 to 500F
Non-stick pizza tray or Lodge Cast Iron 14"
Time: Started at ~13min, now down to 7-8m.

Formula has been a variation on this:
[Baker's percent by weight, not volume]

Bob's Red Mill Artisan Flour: 100% (Hi Gluten)
Hydration: 61 to 63%
ADY [Active Dry Yeast]: .042 to .168 (~ 12-16hr or ~6hr)
Salt: 1%
Oil: 1.75%
Sugar: 1%
TF [Thickness Factor]: .102

Sauce: SM Brand Crushed Tomatoes - too acidic and bright for my taste
           Cento Certified Peeled - Nice balance
           Bianco DiNapoli Crushed - Favorite so far. Mild, sweet, flavorful. Wanna eat straight out the
           can.
Add'l Ingredients: Ghee (replaces butter since my gf can't eat dairy), 1.25tsp salt, 1tsp umami powder (shiitake based), oregano, 2tsp light tasting oil. Quick pulses in Nutri-bullet to thin.
   
I started out using the pizza tray, then moved on to the Lodge (prepped pie on it, put in oven), now I leave the Lodge in the oven and use it like a stone. Needless to say the first few were kind of soggy and slightly undercooked, hence the longer baking time.

Lessons learned so far: Hard cheese gives me the salty umami base punch I failed to get from my previous tries over the years. Currently using Kirkland Peccorino Romano. In fact, the biggest surprise for me has been how much overall salt has to be added to get the flavor I'm wanting.

Pre-heating the Lodge is a must (duh) to get good oven spring. Maybe too good, cause now my biggest issue is getting a handle on TF. My TF is too high for a NY slice and as I get better at the baking, the pies are turning out just a little too thick. I have to learn how to stretch the dough nice and thin
and even without tearing. Will try for .09-.1 TF next. Maybe just practice stretching dough for a while.

Cheeses: I've tried several different cheeses so far and make sure to taste them before use.
Galbani LMWM [Low Moisture Whole Milk Mozzarella]: Kind of bland, taste the salt, otherwise non-descript.
Trader Joes LMWM: Tasty, someone here said 'milky' I agree, good flavor. I can eat it straight.
Boars Head: Buttery, least salty but you can tell it's got the highest fat of the three.

So far on my pies, the BH has the best melt but I have to make sure to compensate for its lower sodium. Otherwise the Trader Joe's has been great with a similar melt to Galbani but better flavor. Next I will try Rumiano Organic, Gardenia, and I found a place that sells Grande [commercial-only top grade mozzarella] to the public so will try that.

I keep forgetting to take pics, but this is the last pie. The left side has the BH, the right TJs:

[Dieterle Tool]

Great post Wushuliu, who doesn't love a delicious slice? I'm a big fan of the white pizzas... mozzarella, fontina, bleu cheese, grana padano and truffle oil is one of my favorites.

Only have one question... are you still using the stock power cord on your oven? 

-Dieter

[wushuliu]

Great post Wushuliu, who doesn't love a delicious slice? I'm a big fan of the white pizzas... mozzarella, fontina, bleu cheese, grana padano and truffle oil is one of my favorites.

Only have one question... are you still using the stock power cord on your oven? 

-Dieter

That will be my next upgrade after I save up for a Shakti Pizza Stone ;P

[wushuliu]

FYI. Here is the indispensable dough calculator I used:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/dough-calculator.html

and yeast chart (estimate) to go with it:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.0

[gregcss]

Looking good. I too have started making my own pizza with home made dough and sauce. Still perfecting so that will take time since you can only eat so much pizza a month 

I've used Robert's Pizza Dough recipe with 1/2 King Arthur all-purpose flour and 1/2 '00' flour. Made sauce for the first time last weekend (recipe below) and will need to perfect it, though it was pretty decent as is and better than the jarred stuff.

I preheat the oven for 550 F and let sit for an hour. Place the pie on a bake steel on top rack for a few minutes then turn. Eye ball it till it's done.

Sauce Ingredients

24oz strained tomatoes from Bionaturae
2 TSP extra virgin olive oil
2 TSP dried oregano
1 clove garlic, minced
½ TSP red pepper flakes
2 TSP sugar, or to taste
1.5 TSP sea salt, or to taste

Steps
Combine ingredients in a sauce pan and simmer for 10 minutes. Cool.

[ArthurDent]

  You're spoiling my diet. Yep, everything in the Seattle region is pricey. Of course everything here is soooo much better than anywhere else.   

When you get your food truck up & running don't forget to head out to the Maple Valley, Black Diamond, Covington area we could do with some better options. I'm sure it will have a killer sound system to eat by as well. 

[Bemopti123]

From the color and the look of the pan you have definitely succeeded my friend.  NYC style pizza that is legend are those that are $1 per slice....if you can find them.  There are pizza wars whereas two pizza joints in the same block begin a price war.  That happens most commonly in concentrated and densely travelled spots in Manhattan.  Sadly with the skyrocketing rents, some of these great pizza shops are going the way of the dodo.  In my corner of Queens, the pizza pans are as what you mentioned....getting more expensive by the day.  Perhaps it is the lack of competition?  I myself have made several pans this year using my trusty almost 20 year old bread machine in order to deal with the most tedious part, the dough mixing.  My sauces are homemade from cans where I add some strange stuff in order to give it flavor.  They are never as round as yours but more oval in shape.   The topping....I like my basic pepperoni and some veggies as well as mozzarella.  The other one that I bake at the same time is usually a pesto base along with just regular cheese and some vegetables.  The vegetarian pan I call it. 

Making pizza is a science and it takes plenty of practice.

Cheers!

[wushuliu]

Sauce Ingredients

24oz strained tomatoes from Bionaturae

I was in Whole Foods this weekend and got the Bionaturae. I think I used it wrong. It was more watery than I expected. I didn't strain the water out. Is that what you did?

Here was one of last night's pies. Sauce flavor was botched but everything else turned out great. Improved thin-ness. Found an awesome cheese to use (Galbani Premio). So getting better:

[jtwrace]

Best. Thread. Ever.  Gosh I love pizza. 

[rollo]

Now were talking. Pizza is an art. IMO Naples Pizza rules the world. It is all about balance of sauce and cheese. Once you make or get a dough you like allow to get to room temp. I like to use fresh plum tomato skinned and unseeded. The sauce should not be seasoned too much. Salt, pepper, fresh Basil [ red] is all ya need. Use fresh Mozzarella.
After pie is prepared sprinkle some Romano cheese on top , drizzle EVO in a circular motion and cook. When cooked sprinkle oregano [ pinch] and pinch of Romano cheese. ENJOY !!
IMO adding garlic powder, oregano, etc makes the sauce bitter. Tomato sauce should be naturally sweet and savory Get a wood or coal fired oven for the ultimate Pizza.
In NYC we have some serious Pizza to compare to. Patsy's, Lombardies, Grimaldi and few others.


charles

[wushuliu]

Now were talking. Pizza is an art. IMO Naples Pizza rules the world. It is all about balance of sauce and cheese. Once you make or get a dough you like allow to get to room temp. I like to use fresh plum tomato skinned and unseeded. The sauce should not be seasoned too much. Salt, pepper, fresh Basil [ red] is all ya need. Use fresh Mozzarella.
After pie is prepared sprinkle some Romano cheese on top , drizzle EVO in a circular motion and cook. When cooked sprinkle oregano [ pinch] and pinch of Romano cheese. ENJOY !!
IMO adding garlic powder, oregano, etc makes the sauce bitter. Tomato sauce should be naturally sweet and savory Get a wood or coal fired oven for the ultimate Pizza.
In NYC we have some serious Pizza to compare to. Patsy's, Lombardies, Grimaldi and few others.


charles

Eventually I'll try out more of the neo/neapolitan style, but in general I'm not into the wood and coal fired pizzas (though I would love to try it in Italy!). I know it's the thing now. There's supposed to be a decent place wood/coal place here in Seattle area called Serious Pie, so may check that out.

[orientalexpress]

I love pizza 

[mcgsxr]

A fascinating and foreign thread for me.

I have never had a New York slice.  I have only been in the city once, for about 20 hours.  Flew in one evening, had dinner, ran a meeting at 30 Rock the next day and was on an afternoon flight home.

My only food excursion was to Papaya Dog!

I do enjoy pizza though, and would love to try what I see here.  My girls would love to hit the big apple sometime, and I will look to stuff myself accordingly from what I see here!

Great looking pie, and wish I could taste it!

[fredgarvin]

We've been working on low carb, low glycemic Pizza and have begun using almond flour for the dough. It's surprisingly good. Very rich as well.

[wushuliu]

We've been working on low carb, low glycemic Pizza and have begun using almond flour for the dough. It's surprisingly good. Very rich as well.

Does Bobs Red Mill Gluten Free fit that requirement? I've used that few times in the past and all in all it was pretty darn good for gluten-free.

[gregcss]

I was in Whole Foods this weekend and got the Bionaturae. I think I used it wrong. It was more watery than I expected. I didn't strain the water out. Is that what you did?

Here was one of last night's pies. Sauce flavor was botched but everything else turned out great. Improved thin-ness. Found an awesome cheese to use (Galbani Premio). So getting better:

Sorry to hear that. I dumped the whole jar in a sauce pot with the other ingredients and simmered then let cool. That probably burned off some of the water. Next time I will add a touch more salt (1/2 tsp or so) and add fresh basil.

[wushuliu]

A fascinating and foreign thread for me.

I have never had a New York slice.  I have only been in the city once, for about 20 hours.  Flew in one evening, had dinner, ran a meeting at 30 Rock the next day and was on an afternoon flight home.

My only food excursion was to Papaya Dog!

I do enjoy pizza though, and would love to try what I see here.  My girls would love to hit the big apple sometime, and I will look to stuff myself accordingly from what I see here!

Great looking pie, and wish I could taste it!

Thanks. The NY Slice has changed over the years, so you may not be missing much now unless you pick a known good spot. When I was a kid there were delicious slices all over. Now apparently, like a lot of things, the quality has declined and instead there is a renewed interest in the 'old' school coal and wood-fired neapolitan pizzas in hipster enclaves. You know a trend has peaked when it has show on the Vice Network (albeit a good one).

The last time I was in NYC the street slices I had were kind of bland and uninspired. But that's change for ya. In a few years the cycle will turn around and street slices will be retro-hip and $$$$.

[fredgarvin]

Does Bobs Red Mill Gluten Free fit that requirement? I've used that few times in the past and all in all it was pretty darn good for gluten-free.

I don't know for sure except that gluten free wheat flour still contains high carbs, generally. Perhaps if they mix in other flours such as bean flour. I think gluten free wheat has much less protein.

[S Clark]

I searched for years for a thin crust that matched what I ate in Corsica years ago. 
Finally, one of our AC members gave me a recipe that is a close match... from Zheeeem, who hasn't been around here in a while. 
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72133.msg675583#msg675583

[wushuliu]

I have not been idle.

Since the initial post I have been on again off again honing my NY pizza game:

I finally bought a pizza steel. 1/4in. This stepped up the crust game considerably.

I've used about a dozen different Mozzarella brands and have settled on some good ones. Bella Rosano and North Beach from Business Costco, and Galbani Professionale from Cash&Carry (now Smart Foodservice under Smart & Final).

Settled on Tomato brands STM Crushed, DiNapoli, and First Street Crushed Tomatoes. All these have a nice balance for what I'm looking for.

Favorite hard cheese still a work in progress: Hard cheese is a secret umami bomb ingredient but really varies by type and brand. Kirkland Pecorino Romano is solid but more nutty than salty. Cello Parmesan vice versa. Locatelli Pecorino nails it but expensive supermarket prices.

Latest pie uses honey instead of sugar in the dough. Ghee instead of oil in the dough. Room temp fermented at 79-81F over 15hrs.

Results: Delish AF. Honey added a nice brown to crust and just a hint of sweetness with depth. Dough tasted wonderful, ghee made it tender and munchy like a proper NY slice. Mozz melt was excellent.

This Jersey boy sez I'm not payin' $20+ for a worse version of this here in the PNW. Sorry Seattle, you can't beat this for da money:



Not gonna lie. Makin' these beats any audiophile gear for me.

After almost 2 years I believe I am ready to add a topping. We'll see.

So let it be written, so let it be done.