High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP

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Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« on: 16 Jan 2005, 05:03 am »
Anyone who has done their homework on nice soundcards knows how the sites rate them.  Most sites I have seen have the Lynx TWO in a class of its own, and then all the other “Class A” soundcards are in their respective place.  As far as I have seen, no one has done a real comparison of these in an audiophile review, with controlled conditions, and in a nice system.  

One of our members offered me an audition of his RME HDSP 96/32 with no strings attached.  So I accepted, and am pleased to bring you the first real comparison of two powerhouse soundcards.  The only catch is, the RME has been modded.  The Empirical Audio mods have been performed on this card.  I won’t bore you with the details.  I am sure Steve Nugent will post the details here, or you can read what he does on his site.  

I am comparing this to my Lynx L22.  L22 is a two channel version of the Lynx TWO without the video sync and stuff that I don’t need.  It’s a lot cheaper than the TWO models, coming in at $749 retail, the same as the unmodded HDSP 96/32.  The mods are $650 from Empirical, bringing this card in at a whopping $1,399.  My Lynx only has some simple mods which are removable.  I cannot disclose what they are because I gave my word to someone who mods these for a living.  I have obscured my minor mods from the picture with black spots, but they don’t make a huge difference anyway.








Let’s get on with it, shall we?  

First, to describe the review system.  I am using a Perreaux Radiance 200i with my Piega C3 Limiteds.  My cabling is Audience Au24 balanced, Au24 speaker cable, jumpers, Electraglide Fat Boy 2000 MkII for the amp, and Audience PowerChord for the front end.  I have two dedicated circuits with a Wattgate 381 on the analog, and a Hubbell Audio Grade on the digital.  My room, as you can see, is fully treated using Eighth Nerve seams, corners, and frames.  The PC case is lined with Dynamat and ERS all over.  ERS is also around the power supply.  To make the review fair, I used the stock breakout cables with each card, although I do have a nice custom breakout cable from Scott Nixon for my Lynx.

A pic of the review setup:


The room treatments:



I used an SPL meter to level match the two cards at 85dB while listening, although this was not necessary b/c the cards both running at -10dBV had the same output, even as measured with the meter.  I auditioned the Lynx first, and then the same tracks in reverse on the RME.  After letting the RME warm up, I did the test again in reverse and went back to the Lynx.

Lynx settings:


RME settings:



My tracks for this test were as follows:

-Steve Kimock Band – 11/14/2004 – Track 3 - Storm Crow (I was at this show a few weeks ago so it’s a good reference for me)

-Jerry Garcia/David Grisman/Tony Rice – The Pizza Tapes – Track 8 – Summertime

-Leonard Cohen – The Essential Leonard Cohen – Disc 1 - Track 8 – Famous Blue Raincoat

-Pearl Jam – No Code – Track 6 – Off He Goes


The first track up is Steve Kimock.  This track sounds pretty close to what I heard live.  Carl’s souped up AKSA amp sounds more like exactly what I heard, but this is pretty close, and is a bit softer.  I heard more detail on this track with the Lynx card than with the RME.  This is the first thing I noticed.  

The RME did really exceed my expectations right off the bat, and is a really good sounding card.  It has ample bass, although it’s a slight bit lighter than the bass coming from the Lynx card on this track.  Another thing that comes to my attention during this track is that the RME seems to lack a certain degree of richness versus the Lynx card, but more on that later in tracks that really display that to a greater degree.

I have always liked The Pizza Tapes, and have listened to it thousands of times.  It seems to work well for auditioning, as acoustic guitars are very hard to reproduce faithfully, and it’s very hard for most systems to expose subtle harmonic differences between two different brands or models of acoustics.  This is a great recording for testing that, and it was evident that the Lynx more readily exposed the harmonics of these two guitars, and the subtleties of the players’ styles.  

By now you’re probably thinking the RME is not a good sounding card.  That’s just not the case.  It does sound great, and it sounds better than about any stand alone player you can pick up in the $3K range.  But the Lynx seems to be making quick work of this heavyweight soundcard in all its modded glory.

An interesting noteworthy fact here is that I never got the HDSP working in ASIO, so I changed to wave out for both cards to make it fair.  There are subtle differences between ASIO and wave out for the Lynx, and I assume the HDSP shows these differences as well, but both were in wave out for the test.

Another thing I found out about these cards is that I think the HDSP does the -10dB thing digitally, whereas the Lynx does it mechanically somehow.  I guess the Lynx uses transformers or something b/c there is an audible click when you switch to -10.  This could have a major impact on this test, but my amplifier does NOT like +4dB with balanced cables.  Too much gain, and lots of crazy things happening at +4dB.  But I guess you can’t blame RME for this.  They aren’t making soundcards for US.  They are making them for the pros.

Moving right along, on Famous Blue Raincoat, there are these wind chimes at the beginning in the background.  With the RME, these are quite obscured, and it seemed as if there were actually LESS individual chimes as well.  This was strange because with the Lynx, it was easy to hear the individual chimes and the wind that moved them.  

The natural decay on Cohen’s guitar is not really there as much with the RME card.  There is a subtle buzz on Cohen’s E string that is also very easy to notice with the Lynx, and quite obscured by the RME.  I could barely hear the backup vocals at the beginning on the RME, but the Lynx was excellent at this.  The RME was a bit boring compared to the Lynx on this track.  It just wasn’t exciting to listen to as the Lynx was.  There was a bit less noise on this track with the RME, which I think is a function of the overall veil that seems to cover the subtle nuances.  This is an old track with lots of tape noise, and it’s evident on the Lynx.  What’s funny though is that there is a bit MORE noise on the Pizza Tapes track.  It’s very subtle, but the noise level is raised on this track, and lessened on tracks where there really is noise.  Interesting.

The RME has a wide soundstage.  It’s probably as wide as with the Lynx, but it’s not nearly as deep.  

On this Pearl Jam track, which is really a super track that Carl turned me onto, there are a couple of acoustic guitars, and an electric also.  It’s a very good recording, and a great song to boot.  The background in this song is much blacker with the Lynx.  It’s a very quiet recording at parts, and it’s easy to hear the noise differences between the two cards.

There is a guitar on this track which is on the right, and it’s always crystal clear, and tonally it jumps out of the mix a bit.  With the RME, it didn’t.  It was still there, but it just wasn’t what I would call crystalline, and the harmonics were missing.  This was the biggest difference I could hear so far between the two cards.  Again the RME’s excellent bass came through, but it didn’t match up with the Lynx.  The whole song sounded muffled and unexciting on the RME.  

I am sure that the RME would probably perform better in a different configuration.  Perhaps if you were running +4dB straight to an amplifier, or a passive, it would be closer to the Lynx.  But I just don’t see how it could make up 150% difference, which it would have to for the price.  

There seems to be a wool blanket in front of the listener when the RME is playing.  It’s not a very thick blanket, but it’s dark grey wool, and it’s probably itchy too.   :lol: Nothing you’d want between you and the artists, especially when this card retails for the same money as the Lynx with no blanket.

The Lynx L22 truly is in a class by itself with it’s Lynx TWO brethren.  It is an exciting card to listen to, and I believe it has few peers among the best digital I have ever heard at any price.  I can highly recommend the Lynx to anyone, and I would be willing to throw mine up against any front end you’d want to compare it with.  The RME would be a great value at $350.  $750 is a hard pill to swallow, and $1,399. . Well. .  That’s just. . Ohh nevermind.

Talk amongst yourselves. . .   :wink:

vpolineni

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #1 on: 16 Jan 2005, 05:10 am »
brandon,  thanks for taking the time to do this comparison.  I am very familiar with the pearl jam track "off he goes" you referenced and in my system, the particular guitar effect you mentioned is apparent.  Oh well-to each his own.  hopefully this comparison will turn more people towards audio pc's and all their glory.  :lol:

Rob Babcock

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #2 on: 16 Jan 2005, 05:28 am »
Thanks for a super shootout, Hantra.  My finances don't permit doing anything to my system right now, but PC is the direction I'll be moving when I'm back on my feet, so to speak.  I really think that's the way hi end audio is headed.

One question:  does your friend that provided the mods to your Lynx sell them anywhere?  How much would it cost to get a card configured as yours is?  And what percentage do the mods help the Lynx? {I realize putting a %-tage on it isn't going to be precise, I'm just looking for a ball park amount.}

Do you think the superiority of the PC sound you're getting is chiefly due to the CD-ROM vs a standalone player, the superiority of buffering thru memory, or the superior of the DAC process in the Lynx?

Anyway, thanks for the excellent report.

Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #3 on: 16 Jan 2005, 05:44 am »
Quote from: Rob Babcock
One question:  does your friend that provided the mods to your Lynx sell them anywhere?  How much would it cost to get a card configured as yours is?  And what percentage do the mods help the Lynx?


Rob, the mods were suggested to me, and I performed them.  It's not hard at all, and it's reversible, but I told him I wouldn't share b/c he makes money selling systems with these mods.  The mods cost probably $30 or so.  And I'd say it helps probably 5% or less.  

Quote from: Rob Babcock
Do you think the superiority of the PC sound you're getting is chiefly due to the CD-ROM vs a standalone player, the superiority of buffering thru memory, or the superior of the DAC process in the Lynx?


Well. . . I have heard transports that are CD-ROM based like the Ayre, and they're damned good.  But not as good as this. I think the key is going to hard drive.  The Lynx is amazing IMO, but the bulk of improvement over standard playback is probably just going to a hard drive based system.  Scott Nixon pointed out something cool that I didn't realize, and it may affect my judgement.  The DAC's that I really really like are all based on this one Crystal chip.  Perhaps I have a thing for that chip.  Who knows?

Rob Babcock

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #4 on: 16 Jan 2005, 06:10 am »
I've found that my Griffin P-Wave hooked up to a garden variety HP is stupid good for the price.  I can only imagine how good a dedicated audio PC would be, running into a better audio system.

Years ago I tied my folks PC into their (extremely modest) home entertainment system.  They absolutely love it.  They use a mix of high bitrate MP3 and wav.files, and it sounds reasonable.  Mostly they love never having to open a jewel case and dig out a disc.  Dad especially has very eclectic tastes- it's not odd for him to have 50 year old Chet Atkins and Hank Williams Sr tracks mixed in with ZZ Top, SRV, or even Black Sabbath! :o   Having all your stuff on the PC is very liberating, as you well know.

What type of interface do you use?  I recall Nathan of 8th Nerve using a ViewSonic AirPort for his...

Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jan 2005, 06:13 am »
Quote
What type of interface do you use?


That ViewSonic is very nice.  I am using a straight flat panel monitor, wireless kb and mouse.  I was using my laptop with RDP, and I also tried Terminal Services with my Dell Axim, which was cool, but quickly became difficult with the small screen.

jermmd

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #6 on: 16 Jan 2005, 02:03 pm »
I'm sure you have mentioned it elsewhere, but could you comment on how the music for this shootout was played.  You mention the hard drive so I assume the CD's were recorded onto the hard drive prior to play back.  What program was used (EAC?), what format (wav?), what playback program?  Do you think a cheap sound card that puts out a bit perfect digital stream to an outboard DAC like the Ack Dac or the Benchmark Dac1 would give you equivalent or better results?

Joe M.

Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #7 on: 16 Jan 2005, 05:09 pm »
Quote from: jermmd
I'm sure you have mentioned it elsewhere, but could you comment on how the music for this shootout was played. . . . . .  Do you think a cheap sound card that puts out a bit perfect digital stream to an outboard DAC like the Ack Dac or the Benchmark Dac1 would give you equivalent or better results?

Joe M.


Joe:

I use EAC to rip them, and then go to FLAC.  I can't tell any audible difference between FLAC and wav.  As far as the DAC, I couldn't tell you.  I haven't hooked one up to mine.  I hear the way to do that though is to get a PC with a SPDIF out on the board, and just avoid the soundcard.  I hear it's spectacular, but this is so good, I don't reall even care to try it out. . .

Carlman

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #8 on: 16 Jan 2005, 05:39 pm »
Interesting read.. Now that I've got my PC up and running, it'll be interesting to do one more comparison.  I've got a (comparably) much cheaper sound card, a Delta DIO that sounds pretty good but I have no comparison.

I couldn't afford to go all the way and get a high-end soundcard... not yet anyway... maybe in a few months.  I haven't done much critical listening because I've been doing a ton of other work... One thing I'm doing today is pulling wire to run internet access to it.

Hantra's PC really inspired me to go this route.  I had what I consider the best value of cd players on the market today and I sold it in favor of the audio PC.  So far I don't consider the sound quality overall insanely better than cd but... it doesn't sound digital... it's that analog sound I wanted.  

Once I get my mods done to the case, I'll want to do another comparison with Hantra's PC vs. mine.  Just to see how much better a high end card can be.  So, maybe in a few weeks?  Let me know.

BTW, I think we'll also compare some integrateds. :)  The system I've got now is everything I hoped it'd be.... and is only going to get better.  My speakers are going to get compared to modd'ed vs. unmodded at some point as well... but now I'm way off topic.

I GREATLY appreciate the amount of work and time that went into this review.  It's clear that a lot went into it and it's a great read.  I hope more will be encouraged to try a PC as a source... it's the real deal.

-C

Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #9 on: 16 Jan 2005, 05:56 pm »
Quote from: Carlman
Once I get my mods done to the case, I'll want to do another comparison with Hantra's PC vs. mine. Just to see how much better a high end card can be. So, maybe in a few weeks? Let me know.

BTW, I think we'll also compare some integrateds.  The system I've got now is everything I hoped it'd be.... and is only going to get better.


You betcha!  I am anxious to hear that integrated again, and maybe with some different tubes.

mac

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #10 on: 16 Jan 2005, 07:21 pm »
If one uses something like a Squeezebox to serve FLAC encoded files to their existing DAC, an expensive sound card isn't even required.  I've been doing this for a short time and the sound quality is very good.

Rob Babcock

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #11 on: 16 Jan 2005, 08:37 pm »
How's the interface with the Squeezebox?  I've been intrigued by it.  Is the remote good?  Is it easy to find the songs you want?

mac

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #12 on: 16 Jan 2005, 08:59 pm »
Quote from: Rob Babcock
How's the interface with the Squeezebox?  I've been intrigued by it.  Is the remote good?  Is it easy to find the songs you want?


I like the interface.  Of course, you can also access the Slimserver server directly from a browser running on your laptop.

You can download a fully-functional Slimserver and run a software version of their Squeezebox (all open-source software).  The software version of their Squeezebox is called Softsqueeze and will give you an indetical "look and feel" interface.  I did this prior to buying a Squeezebox.

Softsqueeze:


Slimserver:

Jon L

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #13 on: 17 Jan 2005, 06:59 am »
Thanks for the review.  I was wonderding how the RME card sounds, especially with Steve's mods.

Your review just goes to show each system is different.  For example, I find that in my system using EVS ultimate attenuators as preamp, I much prefer the +4dBu to -10dBv setting on the Lynx card.  

I also understand many folks don't like Foobar's 32bit output with 96kHz resampler.  And I also didn't like it in the beginning.  But after some power cord/interconnect swaps, I'm loving the 32bit/96kHz Foobar output, at least for well-recorded music.  

One thing that irritates me about these cards is the lack of good old rca and/or XLR jacks right on the card.  Both RME and Lynx require the use of breakout cables, and I know from first-hand experience that Lynx breakout cable sounds pretty bad.  I really wasn't getting the best out of my Lynx card until I made a very short, high-quality dB25 adapter.

Anyway, I hope to compare my Lynx PC vs. spdif out to a good DAC vs. USB/SPDIF converter to DAC in the (hopefully) upcoming SoCal listening session..

Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #14 on: 17 Jan 2005, 05:14 pm »
Quote from: Jon L
I find that in my system using EVS ultimate attenuators as preamp, I much prefer the +4dBu to -10dBv setting on the Lynx card.  


When I was using a passive, I could tell that +4 was better.  But with the integrated I am using now, it's too much gain on balanced, so I run -10.  The extra gain overdrives the inputs and causes my integrated to clip pretty hard.  No doubt that the DB25 breakout I had made is much better than the stock.  Glad you're enjoying yours now!

thomaspf

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #15 on: 17 Jan 2005, 07:26 pm »
Nice review!

Did you mentioned which software player you used for actually playing back the music? Did you apply any volume control?

The RME card uses a special WAV driver that bypasses kmixer while the Lynx does not. What this mean is that comparing WAV on a Lynx and an RME is not fair. Both with ASIO is okay or the Lynx with ASIO and the RME with WAV is also fine.

Cheers

     Thomas

ted_b

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #16 on: 17 Jan 2005, 07:34 pm »
Quote from: thomaspf
Nice review!

Did you mentioned which software player you used for actually playing back the music? Did you apply any volume control?

The RME card uses a special WAV driver that bypasses kmixer while the Lynx does not. What this mean is that comparing WAV on a Lynx and an RME is not fair.
     Thomas


Kmixer is no plus here.  Everyone does what he/she can to get around it (kernel streaming, ASIO, whatever).  The fact that RME bypasses kmixer is an RME advantage (or a moot point if his Lynx did the same), and for Lynx to still have beaten it is a real tribute.  

Ted

Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #17 on: 17 Jan 2005, 08:13 pm »
Quote from: thomaspf
Nice review!

Did you mentioned which software player you used for actually playing back the music? Did you apply any volume control?

The RME card uses a special WAV driver that bypasses kmixer while the Lynx does not. What this mean is that comparing WAV on a Lynx and an RME is not fair. Both with ASIO is okay or the Lynx with ASIO and the RME with WAV is also fine.

Cheers

     Thomas


Thomas:

I used Foobar 2K for playback.  All volume controls were at maximum, but like I said, I couldn't get the RME to run in ASIO.  That's unfortunate b/c it may have sounded better bypassing the mixer.  There is no option for that in the Lynx software.

Thanks!

B

thomaspf

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High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #18 on: 17 Jan 2005, 08:24 pm »
Cool, so what you need to compare is the WAV on the RME and ASIO on the Lynx. When you use WAV on the Lynx you are loosing some quality. There is no diffference between WAV or ASIO on the RME.

Listen to Udial.ape for an idea of how this manifests itself.

Cheers

   Thomas

Hantra

High End Soundcard Shootout - Lynx L22 vs. RME HDSP
« Reply #19 on: 17 Jan 2005, 08:26 pm »
Quote from: thomaspf
Cool, so what you need to compare is the WAV on the RME and ASIO on the Lynx. When you use WAV on the Lynx you are loosing some quality. There is no diffference between WAV or ASIO on the RME.

Listen to Udial.ape for an idea of how this manifests itself.

Cheers

   Thomas


Well that's not even fair.  The Lynx is better in ASIO than in WAV.  If the WAV Lynx L22 is that much better than the WAV RME, then to go to ASIO on the Lynx would have just been that much worse. . .