Curious: Tweeters on sloped baffles vs. Ear height?

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FullRangeMan

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Re: Curious: Tweeters on sloped baffles vs. Ear height?
« Reply #20 on: 1 Sep 2018, 12:15 am »
Why do symphonies keep the bass instruments in the back and higher frequency instruments like flutes in the front?
Historically this arrangement of instruments remained because percussion were not considered solo instruments, instruments considered soloists were always placed frontally near the audience.

JLM

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Re: Curious: Tweeters on sloped baffles vs. Ear height?
« Reply #21 on: 1 Sep 2018, 12:22 pm »
I very much like Pat's closing comment: "In fact, many buyers are actually  asking to be bamboozled: They'll take fancy veneer work and jewelry-store spikes on a third order design with and a vertical baffle !!!!"

To update Pat's commentary, technology has come to the rescue on a couple of fronts in recent years.  First is the coincidental driver (tweeter inside the woofer with the voice coils lining up in all three dimensions.  This is found in KEF's better speakers.  (Note that coaxial drivers do address alignment in two dimensions.)  Second is the advent of DSP (as used in an increasing number of active speakers) that can adjust for phase, impulse, plus of course compensate for the given room, and serve as the crossover.  This can be also be found in software (Room Equalization Wizard, Dirac Live, etc.) if you listen via a computer. 

But DSP is only a bandaid.  The best solution is to go back to Pat's fundamentals and start with quality drivers that are physically aligned and use first order crossovers, then tweak with DSP.  Just like with room acoustics, start with a proper shape/size of room with a good setup, then tweak with treatments first, then finally room EQ. 

JohnR

Re: Curious: Tweeters on sloped baffles vs. Ear height?
« Reply #22 on: 1 Sep 2018, 01:06 pm »
But DSP is only a bandaid.  The best solution is to go back to Pat's fundamentals and start with quality drivers that are physically aligned and use first order crossovers, then tweak with DSP.

What, like these for example?



http://www.meadowlarksings.com/kite.htm

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Re: Curious: Tweeters on sloped baffles vs. Ear height?
« Reply #23 on: 6 Sep 2019, 04:20 pm »
What sometimes happens with TMM speakers is the lobe is tilted downward (not always - some crossovers are time aligned). So if the speaker sits straight, it might sound a little thin. One way to fix this, so you get the desired flat frequency response from the speaker, is to tilt the front baffle. Another way is to make the speaker taller with a stand so that the tweeter is above ear level. And another way to do it is just use a rectangular enclosure and put the speaker on a stand which tilts back. There are many ways to skin a cat.

But the problem with raising the speaker and putting it closer to the ceiling is, you might have more / closer ceiling reflections, which could be bad. So I think the sloped baffle is a good idea for speakers with those types of drooping polar responses.

In contrast, with the popular MTM alignment, the speaker should be standing straight and the tweeter at ear level.

BobRex

Re: Curious: Tweeters on sloped baffles vs. Ear height?
« Reply #24 on: 6 Sep 2019, 09:16 pm »
Rockadanny,
   I always wondered about your question. Technics came out with the first time aligned speaker that I remember in 1977, the SB 7000. The tweeter was at ear level while sitting down but it didn't have a sloped front. The tweeter was further back than the woofer and the mid range was too but half as far.
   My take is that by slanting the front baffle you might get time alignment but your tweeter is not pointing to the optimum angle of seated listening. I think it's a time and cost thing. I could be wrong but I would never angle my tweeter upwards for the sake of imaging
     When I look at speakers with tweeters at ear level and have a slanted front I want to put a carpenters shiv or wedge in the back of the cabinet or listen standing.
    Now to throw a wrench in it; Why do symphonies keep the bass instruments in the back and higher frequency instruments like flutes in the front? .....Mark Korda

I had the SB 7000s when they first came out.  They were OK, Polk 10s sounded more musical and had better bass.  They were not the first time aligned speaker, Dahlquist had them beat by a couple of years.


As far as the orchestra is concerned, think about the radiation patterns of the instruments.  Listening to a flute or horn sideways isn't that great.  Bass, or even violin, no big deal.