30.7s on tour

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Tyson

Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #20 on: 13 Oct 2018, 05:05 pm »
Maggie's sound best when they are played loud, also sound good when people have ten foot mouths

Just like box speakers sound good when they don't have to produce any realistic sounding bass.

josh358

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #21 on: 13 Oct 2018, 06:08 pm »
Well, not *quite,* because I don't get 10' wide mouths! That sounds to me like bad setup. I mean, really, really bad setup.

What I do hear are various distortions of perspective on bad recordings, e.g., multiple mono with carelessly applied artificial reverb.

The perceived width of instruments seems to be more a function of room acoustics -- the drier the acoustics, the more pinpoint the images, until you get something that sounds cool and holographic but nothing like live music, which doesn't have pinpoint imaging or anything like.

Emsquare

Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #22 on: 13 Oct 2018, 08:35 pm »
Maggie's sound best when they are played loud, also sound good when people have ten foot mouths


I have heard people refer to the "Big Mouth" effect associated with Magnepans but haven't experienced that myself. I have noticed that the larger Magnepans clearly sound scaled up from the smaller models. Very apparent when switching between, say, SMG's and a 3 series. But once the sound becomes familiar either sounds like they're supposed to sound that way. I have to think there is some cognitive adjustment at play for the user . SMG's are a great little speaker. But when they're swapped out for something like a 3.6 it is kind of thrilling. Those 3.6's sound enormous... For a while. I don't think it takes very long before you wonder why you didn't go upscale a long time ago. I've never heard either the 20's or the Tympani's yet but that has to be The Wall Of Sound taken to the next level.


I have to get out more often.

josh358

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #23 on: 13 Oct 2018, 09:54 pm »
The Tympanis definitely do the wall of sound. :-)

I think the wide mouth thing was something that someone said 40 years ago. My Tympani 1D's never imaged well because the XO was at 1 kHz so the acoustical center of the midrange was too far apart from the center of the tweeter. You'd basically get two imagines for the lows and highs. This may have led to the wide mouth observation.

The IVa's cross over at about 300 Hz so the imaging is a lot better. Since I'm sitting too close to them and my room is too small, I had to make some modifications. I have the midwoofer panel sitting next to the mid-tweet panel, and then the low bass panel is against the side wall behind them. They're triamped to bring them into time and I'm crossing over to the midwoofer panel electronically at IIRC 90 Hz. That way they behave like a much smaller Maggie in the range where sound is directional. If I use absorption, I can get imaging that's maybe 90% of what I heard from the IRS V, which had the most holographic soundstage I've ever heard. Some day, if I grow ambitious, I'll squeeze all the drivers except the deep bass together in a new frame or even tighter imaging. Beyond that, I think you'd have to design something truly coaxial down to 80 Hz. (I've seen some people say that the IRS Beta, which was an in-line design, had the best imaging ever, but it seemed to me that each frequency range was coming from a different height!)

Roger Gustavsson

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #24 on: 15 Oct 2018, 05:21 pm »
The Tympanis definitely do the wall of sound. :-)

I think the wide mouth thing was something that someone said 40 years ago. My Tympani 1D's never imaged well because the XO was at 1 kHz so the acoustical center of the midrange was too far apart from the center of the tweeter. You'd basically get two imagines for the lows and highs. This may have led to the wide mouth observation.

Yes, the "wide mouth" became less wide with the Tympani IV and even more so with the IVa.

josh358

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #25 on: 15 Oct 2018, 06:11 pm »
Yes, the "wide mouth" became less wide with the Tympani IV and even more so with the IVa.
Some day, I'd like to tighten up the imaging on the IVa's even more by moving the midrange right next to the ribbon. Apparently the reason for the separation is purely structural. I'm making aluminum subframes for my Neo 8's that are designed so that they'll fit in the old baffles for now, but someday I can put them in a new aluminum baffle that will let me nest the mids right next to the tweeter. Ultimately, I'd like to get the midwoofer panel closer to the midrange as well. The best imagining I've ever gotten from the IVa's was when I was experimenting with arrangements like the one you're planning for your IVa's, midwoofer on one side of the mid-tweet panel and low woofer on the other side. But if I fold the bass panels back, which is the only way to fit them here, I get cancellation that depresses the midbass so I gave up on that arrangement.

johnto

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #26 on: 12 Mar 2019, 04:57 pm »
Caught the Maggie 30.7 last night in MA which I also understand was the last stop on the tour. My thoughts are posted on audioasylum.

SteveFord

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #27 on: 13 Mar 2019, 09:54 pm »
The 30.7 tour wrap up thoughts from Wendell:

Subject-- THEY ARE WATCHING YOU   

I have something to get off my chest--- I learned the hard way from the first tours to ask the crowd if anyone was active (or watching) in the chat rooms? Quite a few indicated that they occasionally watch, but very few attendees are active (maybe 1 out of 100 or 150 attendees). In Boston, one person raised his hand. I said-- "This gentleman is the most important person in the room........... and I am serious!!!"

Now that I had their attention, I explained. No high-end speaker manufacturer has taken their flagship speaker to every dealer in North America. It is not a cost-effective way to sell 30.7s and I knew it before we started. Galina and I volunteered for this tour for a couple of reasons--- the 30.7 is the successor to the famous Tympani IVa, but very few customers would hear it because it is not economically feasible for dealers to put it on display.

I went on to explain that in the Old Days, I would take a new Maggie to Harry Pearson. He most always liked them and the majority of the marketing job was finished. Now, word-of-mouth and the Internet has more influence than a favorable review from Jonathan Valin.

We all know the importance of a good sound room. On Monday, we completed 52 demonstrations of the 30.7 ending up in Boston (there are two more 3 week tours to complete North America). Hearing the same pair of 30.7s in 52 rooms really drives home the importance of a good sound room. Mega-buck amplifiers and exotic speaker cables can't fix a bad or poor sound room. (BTW--the best sound rooms had a lot of diffusers).

So, what should I do when faced with a situation like we had in Tampa or Boston? The dealer's sound rooms are far too small for the 30.7 and could only accommodate 2 or 3 customers at a time. The dealers searched for a space they could rent and I consulted with the dealers. The best options were not good (and that is being generous). When I was able to see the rooms, I privately wished I could cancel the demonstrations. I have seen it many times before-- the hardcore audiophiles will come. Most attendees can recognize a bad sound room and are very generous. The response and "thank you" from the attendees reinforces the fact that this endeavor is important on many levels. But, what happens when it is a bad or poor sound room? ("Bad news travels faster than good news") The very same day as the Boston demo, the comments started. Yes, I am fully aware that 30.7s can sound far better than what was heard in Boston. Most everyone understood. One couple said they wanted to order 30.7s. She wants them in maple trim to match their coffee table. Like most everyone else, they could hear past the room.

But, there were many good moments on this latest tour. I was informed that the recording engineer for the Syracuse Orchestra was in attendance at the demo at Audio Classics in Vestal (Binghamton), New York. I observed that he was impressed. So, I asked him to speak to the attendees. He said-- "This is the best reproduction of an orchestra that I have ever heard..........and when possible, I want 30.7s for my post-production work." 

Belvedere2

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #28 on: 13 Mar 2019, 11:01 pm »
Just got the invite in the mail. Framingham, MA. Will see if I have time to go.

josh358

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Re: 30.7s on tour
« Reply #29 on: 13 Mar 2019, 11:32 pm »
Just got the invite in the mail. Framingham, MA. Will see if I have time to go.
Sadly, that's the Boston even that johnto and Wendell wrote about -- it was on the 11th.