[Chris_33]

I currently experiment issue of too “bright sound” and unpleasant/unnatural high frequency sound (like “ssss” sound) that leads to hearing fatigue.

(Sorry for the poor explanation, English is not my native language and don’t know the proper English terms to qualify this sound issue)

Previously, I was listening music with a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 6G 200 connected directly to the output stage of my Denon AVR-X4400 (with bi-ampli connection).

I am exclusively listening music with Spotify (320 kbit/s) through Airplay.

Before buying the ST-10, I never had this “bright sound” issue but I wanted to improve my system to get the best from my Monitor Audio front speakers.

I have to say that I don’t have this “bright sound” issue that much with all music album.

I try to experiment different kind of settings (the best seems to be “pure direct” with no tone setting) without real success.

I don’t know if the problem comes from my system or if it just reveal more accurately some bad compression of some source even with Spotify sets to higher quality.

One more thing, when I have run Denon Audyssey setup, it detected a phase issue on the front speakers. I have double checked the wiring but there is no inversion so I didn't changed it, despite what said Audyssey.

Any advice or feeling about it would be appreciated

[in1unison]

Hi Chris,

I am using ST-10 with MA Gold GX200 (DAC-10 as preamp) and no issue with bright sound.

ST-10 being more resolving amp., maybe it's time to address your room response to HF. Have you tried treating first (and third) reflection points on your side walls?

Regards,

Jan A.

[Chris_33]

Hi Jan,

Thank you for your answer

As I have tissue on walls and carpet on floor, room response is not something I have focus on until now ... but I guess I could have a look on it.

Do you have useful link  on that subject ?

[Chris_33]

It seems I found the origine of my problem.

When I have installed the amplifier on the pre-amp section of the receiver, I have set the ECO mode of the receiver to ON.

I thought that the receiver didn’t need to much power as my front speakers will not be powered by it anymore. And I forgot about it.

Well, it seems the ECO mode causes distortion in the HF even on the pre-amp section of the receiver.

Now that ECO mode is off, the sound is much better and I can start to enjoy fully my new setup.

By the way, I am quite impressed by the power and the sharpness of the bass. I never thought the Monitor Audio Siver 200 could be able to produce that level of performence.

For those who maight be interested, the trigger output of the Denon AVR is working properly with the input trigger of the ST-10. It just requires a stereo mini-jack despite that Denon documentation says to use a mono mini- jack (which doesn’t work).

[opnly bafld]

Glad you found the issue. 

[in1unison]

Do you have useful link  on that subject ?

http://www.advancedacoustics-uk.com/What-Is-The-First-Reflection-Point

You can start with this link.

[Chris_33]

@opnly bafld : 

@in1unison : thanks !

[Spenav]

HI Chris

There is a discussion, albeit brief, concerning the polarity of the ST-10 terminals in the thread "Comparison between ST-10 and ST-10M". I have experienced the same thing and have safely reversed the speaker wires at the amp with excellent results. Let your ears be the judge and decide for yourself.  Your experience with the ST-10 and your receiver will certainly help others. Good luck.

[Chris_33]

HI Chris

There is a discussion, albeit brief, concerning the polarity of the ST-10 terminals in the thread "Comparison between ST-10 and ST-10M". I have experienced the same thing and have safely reversed the speaker wires at the amp with excellent results. Let your ears be the judge and decide for yourself.  Your experience with the ST-10 and your receiver will certainly help others. Good luck.

I struggled a bit to find the thread because the subject is « comparison of evolution one with st-10M » but there is definitely something there.

Same feeling of too bright HF and phase issue detection, it is more than a coincidence.

To be honest, despite what I said before, even if putting the ECO mode OFF was a noticeable improvement, I am still thinking sometime « well it is still too bright there... ».

So I inverted the polarity of my front speakers.

First I don’t have anymore the error of phase during Audyssey calibration.

Second, I indeed feel also a improvement on this bright HF issue ...

But, this time, before going to definitive conclusion, I will let the system like this some days and will tell you.

Anyway thank you very much for your input !

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Try a different DAC.  DAC's like Chord's Hugo and Qutest. Aqua La Voce,  Luxman, Hegel, Marantz and many others are voiced warmer or more organic sounding. Besides, they would be a huge step up from your Denons DAC.   Bear in mind that some usb cables can sound very bright.  Wire Word USB's tend not to be bright in my experience with a few of them.  An Uptone Regen can also smooth things out.

Your Denon preamp may not be a good match as well.

[Spenav]

Hi Chris
Sorry I gave you the wrong thread. It's rather the "comparison between Evo One and ST-10M". You are doing the right thing by listening to it for a couple of days. You have to let your brain get use to the new sound before making wholesale changes to your hardware. In that thread, pay attention to Rafa's reply. He explained it rather eloquently. I have been listening to mine like that for a few years now and won't go back to the old way. My DAC is the Marantz NA11S1 for perspective.

[Chris_33]

Try a different DAC.  DAC's like Chord's Hugo and Qutest. Aqua La Voce,  Luxman, Hegel, Marantz and many others are voiced warmer or more organic sounding. Besides, they would be a huge step up from your Denons DAC.   Bear in mind that some usb cables can sound very bright.  Wire Word USB's tend not to be bright in my experience with a few of them.  An Uptone Regen can also smooth things out.

Your Denon preamp may not be a good match as well.

Thank you for your advices

In order to limit the number of devices, my goal was to use an AVR as DAC.

I know that Marantz is know for having more musical and warmer properties compare to Denon but I had a good deal with the AVR-X4400 which is supposed to be more neutral. I thought it could be good enough.
Maybe my next AVR will be a Marantz but it is not planned for a while.

I don’t use any USB cable in my system.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Thank you for your advices

In order to limit the number of devices, my goal was to use an AVR as DAC.

I know that Marantz is know for having more musical and warmer properties compare to Denon but I had a good deal with the AVR-X4400 which is supposed to be more neutral. I thought it could be good enough.
Maybe my next AVR will be a Marantz but it is not planned for a while.

I don’t use any USB cable in my system.

An AVR will never sound as good as a stand alone DAC.   But I understand wanting to keep things simple.  There are some really good Integrated amps with good built in DAC's from companies like Parasound, Hegel, Peachtree, Cambridge Audio, New Prime to name a few.  These will be a huge step up.

[Chris_33]

Sooooo, finally after many tries I found the proper setting for my setup.

Correcting the phase inversion of the ST-10 was a good improvement but I was still not completely satisfied.

Sometimes it was still a bit too harsh, sometimes a bit to flat or too loud depending of the AVR setting, none of them was ok for all uses.

Finally I bought the app MultEQ which allows to access to some more setting and then big surprise : the Audyssey calibration of the app gives a complete different sound result compare to the Audyssey calibration run by the AVR firmware.

The calibration done by the app has corrected all the remaining issues to give the result I was looking for : sound perfectly balanced at any volume, zero harsh sound or hearing fatigue, all instruments and voices very well detailed and natural.

I can now completely appreciate the solid quality of the ST-10 which drives the monitor audio silver 200 with a superb authority, everything match perfectly.

For those who might be interested, here is my setting :

MultEQ app :
High frequencies attenuation : curve 1
Medium compensation : off

AVR :
Movie EQ : off
Restorer : off
MultEQ XT32 : référence
Dynamic EQ : on
Comp. ref. Level : +10dB
Dynamic volume : off
Audyssey LFC : off

For music listening :
Sound mode : music multich
Option -> Channel level setting -> -12dB for all surround channels (allows to expand greatly the sound stage but keep the front stage effect)