Gallo Reference Center and Gallo Ref III Mods - Updates?

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nathanm

Re: A joke?
« Reply #20 on: 21 Feb 2005, 08:22 am »
If I remember right, the last time I replied to this post my computer crashed midway into it. Doh!
Quote from: Ric Schultz
Nathanm, Is your post a joke?

Nope.  
Quote
The switch controls the output level of the tweeter and it is indeed audible which position it is in.
I know, but the audible result was very subtle to my ears.  My opinion is that I tried it many ways and it didn't seem to matter much.  But take into consideration that I was the only guy doing the switch and that get up\swap\sit down scenario can throw you off.  With two guys on each side and my eyes closed whilst switching then sure, maybe.
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Removing the switch makes the sound better (and this comes directly from Anthony Gallo).

That's fine, but does Anthony Gallo loan out his ears and brain to people? :P You said they were removing the switch because people kept busting them off.  It's a good idea:  remove a part which saves some money, prevents tech support calls and then you just change the sales pitch to say  that removing this switch makes it Sound Better! :wink:  I am not saying that's what they did in such a sneaky manner, but it would make sense.  Actually most hifi is based on this principle; give people less and charge them more for it.  Works for bikinis too. :P
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All switches degrade the sound.  I have not heard one that does not.  And this is my direct experience having made preamps and passive preamps with switches and without.

That's fine for you.  And my comment of "Nope. Don't worry about it. That switch does next to nothing as is..."  is a result of my direct experience of owning and listening to these speakers with the switches in one of three different positions.  Heck, if I was worried about switches I would get even less satisfaction from music than I already do with this perverse gear lust. Heh!

So, if switches degrade the sound I assume they are distorting the signal in some way, correct?  Then would you be able to build, let's say a fuzz pedal comprised solely of switches wired in series with no other parts, right?  Adding degradation after degradation...would the distortion increase or maybe the volume would get quieter?  This is a serious question.  How many switches would it take before the sound was all crunchy?

The speaker has more issues than a simple switch IMO.  Like a side-firing super-heavy coned woofer in a way small enclosure mated with the small mids\CDT tweeter combo.  Personally I didn't like the integration of the drivers.  The overall tonal balance wasn't floating my boat.  An EQed auxillary amp 'option' tells me that the bass needs "fixing".  That is my non-speaker designer, non-technical layman's opinion but I felt that they made a backwards step in going from the I and II to the III design.  So why stop with the switch removal?  Take out the two midrange drivers, the big woofer, the central pillar, stick in a Dynaudio midwoofer in a cool aluminum ball, plop a mostly-omnidirectional tweeter up top and bob's yer uncle! :)  I think they compromised a great design just because of WAF.  I can't fault them for giving people what they want, but it's a shame nonetheless.  Why domestic parnters would object to anodized aluminum balls on sleeky, curvy stands is something I don't quite get.  Oh well...

The IIIs have a great sound, but the Solos are greater to my ears.  Against a different speaker I probably would have a different view of the III, though.  Most likely the frequency jaggies from the Solos were more appealing to me than the frequency jaggies from the IIIs as they bounced about my particular room.  Many variables at stake of course,  but a switch being the least of my concerns.  If a company is going to give the user controls I personally feel they should really Do Something to the sound which doesn't require earnest concentration.  Not something that is only audible to some people and not others.   If the tweeter boost was variable or offered a coarser range I think that would be better.  But removing it altogether is a good idea too.  That poor little switch doesn't stand a chance against upwardly accelerating slabs of steel! :wink:

doug s.

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Re: A joke?
« Reply #21 on: 21 Feb 2005, 04:51 pm »
Quote from: nathanm
...Quote:
All switches degrade the sound. I have not heard one that does not. And this is my direct experience having made preamps and passive preamps with switches and without.

That's fine for you. And my comment of "Nope. Don't worry about it. That switch does next to nothing as is..." is a result of my direct experience of owning and listening to these speakers with the switches in one of three different positions. Heck, if I was worried about switches I would get even less satisfaction from music than I already do with this perverse gear lust. Heh!

So, if switches degrade the sound I assume they are distorting the signal in some way, correct? Then would you be able to build, let's say a fuzz pedal comprised solely of switches wired in series with no other parts, right? Adding degradation after degradation...would the distortion increase or maybe the volume would get quieter? This is a serious question. How many switches would it take before the sound was all crunchy? ...


nate do you realize this is ric schultz - the mfr of the famous evs attenuator?  the guy made these cuz he's *fanatic* about the sonic degradation from switches!  these are the *ultimate*sonically pure preamps!   :D





but, ya gotta be kinda fanatical to use this kinda preamp - ya have to swap out yer ic's to different sources, when ya wanna switch from winyl to cd or to tuna, etc.  and, then to reach behind yer amp to twiddle the two knobs...  but, ya know what?  ric is so fanatical about switches, he doesen't even use his own evs attenuators!  know why?  *still*  too much veiling - when ric wants to change the wolume, he turns off his amp & source, whips out the soldering iron, removes the single resistor in line for each channel, & solders in a new one!  seriously!!!   :D

doug s.

nathanm

Re: A joke?
« Reply #22 on: 21 Feb 2005, 06:46 pm »
Quote from: Doug S.
ric is so fanatical about switches, he doesen't even use his own evs attenuators! know why? *still* too much veiling - when ric wants to change the wolume, he turns off his amp & source, whips out the soldering iron, removes the single resistor in line for each channel, & solders in a new one! seriously!!!


That is all very amusing and wonderfully absurd behavior and more power to him if that's what he likes doing, but what does it have to do with anything?  I'm just saying that it is a bit unecessary for a normal listener to get worked into a froth over a single part on a speaker when there are much more macro issues at hand with that particular speaker.  Personally I wouldn't take the advice of anyone described as a "fanatic" anyway because what they care about is probably not what I care about.  Does the paint thickness on the pillar also degrade the sound?  What if one speaker cone surround is .000005" thicker than the other?  How many dust particles must collect on the tweeter grille before ultrasonic degradation occurs?

Playing with positioning with the Gallos will affect differences far outweighing any lone switch.  That will be a much more productive tweaking session to perform before breaking out the soldering iron.  Raising them up on blocks may also affect more radical changes.  There's lots of options to try before splitting split hairs, that's all I'm saying.

Ric Schultz

Gallo Reference Center and Gallo Ref III Mods - Updates?
« Reply #23 on: 23 Feb 2005, 04:10 am »
Actually lately I have been using no attenuation and running the source directly into the amp....oh loud sound, but good.  

Yes, there are far more important things about the speaker than the slight veiling from the switch.  The switch was there because the wide dispersion of the tweeter might cause problems in very bright rooms.  Anthony found that most people were using it in the middle position so eliminating the switch made the speaker both more reliable (no broken switches) and also very slightly more transparent.  No big thing, but it is sonically more pure without the switch.  Never heard a sonically transparent switch and I doubt I ever will.  I repeat...it was not removed for monetary reasons.  The savings was nil.

The mod is coming along fine.  I will more than likely have two different versions: one will be more "absolutely pure" in that the crossover is completely eliminated from the mids and highs.  The other version will keep the current crossover and upgrade its parts.  The power handling of the crossoverless mids/highs version will be somewhat shortened.  I am sure it will play about 100 db but if you were going to use the speakers for A-V use or serious party use then the standard upgraded xover will allow higher sound levels without distortion.

I repeat: the speaker must have at least 50 hours of 90-95db stomping music through them before they even begin to open up and that especially includes the bass response.  Most dealers do not have a broken in pair and many owners have never nor will ever hear how good they can be.  Please try inverting the absolute phase as well.  I find that reversed sounds best on most music.  The speakers need to be really spiked well because the woofers want to move the speaker side to side.  Bright Star has some bases for them that add both height and mass.  I have a pair coming and will see how they improve the sound.  I would think a wider base would be even better.  I am thinking of making a base out of two 4 inch thick pieces of maple.  One piece would be about twice as wide as the speaker and the other piece would be somewhat less wide.  These two pieces of maple would be put together to make an 8 inch high stand that would add mass, height and most importantly width.  The 8 inch maple stand would bolt directly to the speaker and carpet piercing spikes would then be underneath.  I would think that a wider stand would really make the speaker shine.   The speaker is just not wide enough....the woofers want to move it sideways.

I had the older Gallo Solos (modified, of course) and liked them very much.  It was long ago so cannot comment on how they sound compared with stock or modified Ref IIIs.   More to come!

KKM

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Gallo Reference Center and Gallo Ref III Mods - Updates?
« Reply #24 on: 13 Apr 2005, 06:57 pm »
Hi Ric,

Any update on this mod.

Also for anyone interested, 6moons most recent review with the SA amp:
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/gallo3/followup.html