[Avinash]

Got stung by the Upgrade bug

Just got a pair of these mono-blocks, for a good price in local CL. This is my first tube amp, Will be driving my VR-4's Gen 1's. Was actually on a look out for a medium powered tube to power the HF in my bi-amp setup.
I can vertical bi-amp the VR-4's with Apollo's but I'm really happy with my JBL/UREI 6290 amp, dual mono design with 300w @ 8ohm and 600w @ 4ohm. Controls the bass really well. So for now the Apollo's will just be driving the HF in Triode mode. Sounds like an overkill, but I'll see how it works out.

Haven't hooked it up yet. Any one on here have experience with Apollo Dark or the early apollo amps?

[hibuckhobby]

Great amps!  Enjoy.
regards,
Hibuck....

[mhconley]

Holy crap! Nice CL score.

I’m shopping used medium power tube monoblocks to power the HF section of my VR-4 Gen III HSE. I have a pair of 1000W DIY ICEpower monoblocks bi-wired now.

May I ask what amps you were looking at? I’ve been focused on 60W Dynaco Mark III although 60-90W Quicksilvers have recently caught my eye. The VTA M-125 looks very nice, too.

Martin

[twitch54]

Big Congrats !!
 
IMO you've got a pair of the finest tube amps for money out there. They compete way beyond their price point. I can't see how you won't be happy with them

Enjoy !!

[SundayNiagara]

Got stung by the Upgrade bug

Just got a pair of these mono-blocks, for a good price in local CL. This is my first tube amp, Will be driving my VR-4's Gen 1's. Was actually on a look out for a medium powered tube to power the HF in my bi-amp setup.
I can vertical bi-amp the VR-4's with Apollo's but I'm really happy with my JBL/UREI 6290 amp, dual mono design with 300w @ 8ohm and 600w @ 4ohm. Controls the bass really well. So for now the Apollo's will just be driving the HF in Triode mode. Sounds like an overkill, but I'll see how it works out.

Haven't hooked it up yet. Any one on here have experience with Apollo Dark or the early apollo amps?

Sell the JBL and run the Rogue's full range, as you'll probably run into timing errors by bi-amping. The Rogue's should drive them nicely.

[Avinash]

But I read the flagged post about bi-amping. And the manufacturer is recommending the same kind of setup (hi current solid state for LF and tube amp for HF) as I have now. Never heard anything about timing error. Is it something to do with audio signal slightly lagging from one of the amp to the speaker?

[Tubeburner]

I am bi-amping a pair of VR 7 HSE speakers and I have used a pair of Lumley Reference 120's (120 w/channel) or a Decware Torii II (25watts) on the HF. I have a Proceed BPA-2 on the LF. I use a Tortuga LDR3V.25 passive pre and find the impedance matching of the Tortuga works excellent in this setup. I don't hear timing issues. Just a wonderful sound.

When are you going to hook up the Rogue Apollo Dark?

[SundayNiagara]

But I read the flagged post about bi-amping. And the manufacturer is recommending the same kind of setup (hi current solid state for LF and tube amp for HF) as I have now. Never heard anything about timing error. Is it something to do with audio signal slightly lagging from one of the amp to the speaker?

Check the input sensitivities of the amps. This means how much voltage is required to drive the amps to full output. If they don't match, that's where the timing errors come in. Say bye-bye to the JBL amp. I have heard VonSchweikert's driven by the smaller Rogue monoblocks and they performed quite nicely.

[Avinash]

Check the input sensitivities of the amps. This means how much voltage is required to drive the amps to full output. If they don't match, that's where the timing errors come in. Say bye-bye to the JBL amp. I have heard VonSchweikert's driven by the smaller Rogue monoblocks and they performed quite nicely.

The input sensitivity of the JBL is listed as 1.1v @8ohm, since it just driving the LF it must be operating at 4ohms. The Apollo's input sensitivity is listed as 1.0v RMS. Is 0.1v enough to create an unbalance? I've been listening to it and do feel the HF is slightly louder at the same volume level as compared to my Yamaha M80 which was previously driving the HF.

Also if I'm to drive VR4's just with the Rogue monoblocks in vertical bi-amp setup. Which pot should I use from the amp, it has a 4ohm and 8ohm in the back. I know the VR's HF are 8ohm and LF are 4ohm.

[Avinash]

Holy crap! Nice CL score.

I’m shopping used medium power tube monoblocks to power the HF section of my VR-4 Gen III HSE. I have a pair of 1000W DIY ICEpower monoblocks bi-wired now.

May I ask what amps you were looking at? I’ve been focused on 60W Dynaco Mark III although 60-90W Quicksilvers have recently caught my eye. The VTA M-125 looks very nice, too.

Martin

I was looking at few Rogue Stereo 100, Carver C-19, dynaco and McIntosh don't recall which model all on local CL. The Apollos looked best bang for the buck, as I read some of the loudspeaker manufacturers use these in Audio shows for demo'ing. So i figured you can't go wrong with that.

[SundayNiagara]

The input sensitivity of the JBL is listed as 1.1v @8ohm, since it just driving the LF it must be operating at 4ohms. The Apollo's input sensitivity is listed as 1.0v RMS. Is 0.1v enough to create an unbalance? I've been listening to it and do feel the HF is slightly louder at the same volume level as compared to my Yamaha M80 which was previously driving the HF.

Also if I'm to drive VR4's just with the Rogue monoblocks in vertical bi-amp setup. Which pot should I use from the amp, it has a 4ohm and 8ohm in the back. I know the VR's HF are 8ohm and LF are 4ohm.

Let your ears be the judge of what output taps to use.

[Avinash]

I am bi-amping a pair of VR 7 HSE speakers and I have used a pair of Lumley Reference 120's (120 w/channel) or a Decware Torii II (25watts) on the HF. I have a Proceed BPA-2 on the LF. I use a Tortuga LDR3V.25 passive pre and find the impedance matching of the Tortuga works excellent in this setup. I don't hear timing issues. Just a wonderful sound.

When are you going to hook up the Rogue Apollo Dark?

I did hook them up saturday. Had them just running the HF one on each side. So Essentially 4 monoblocks running a pair of VR-4 Gen 1's, as the JBL is dual mono design with two power switches

Sounds good to me so far, to my ear the HF is louder for the same volume level as compared to my previous amp (Yamaha M80) driving them. Must be the change in sensitivity, Rogues are more sensitive. Deciding if I want to keep running this setup as I do have to equalize the sensitivity difference of 100mV between the Rogue and JBL.

Yesterday night I vertical bi-amped the Rogue's taking the JBL out of the loop. Didn't hear much of a difference.

I'm beginning to think the VR-4's have peaked performance vise and if I want to see/hear any further audio bliss, I will have to upgrade to a different loudspeakers ..... this is a never ending cycle

[Tubeburner]

Give the amps a few days to settle in and the caps to recharge fully. They will get better.

[kernelbob]

Avinash,

The potential issue with using different amplifiers in a biamplified system is not due to different gain levels or sensitivities.  It is (again potentially) due to different propagation times for the different amps.  In other words, how long an amplifier takes to process the signal from the input terminals to the output terminals.

I'm driving VonSchweikert VR100XS system using a pair of Lampizator True Balanced 211 Monoblock amps to on the midrange/tweeters and a pair of Spectron Musician III Mk2 monoblocks driving the woofers.  The XS subwoofers get their signal from sense cables attached to the woofer inputs, integrating the bass input signal and the backwave EMF from the tower's woofers.

I've used other combinations of amps on the top and bottom of various speakers and in every case the combined strengths of the different technologies were far superior than biwiring with a single amp.  In my system, the 211's bring excellent time coherence, detail, and timbre resolution.  The Spectrons provide essentially limitless power (I've never heard them sound stressed), very high damping factor, and extremely extended bass response.  As the saying goes, horses for courses.

Best,
Robert

[Avinash]

Avinash,

The potential issue with using different amplifiers in a biamplified system is not due to different gain levels or sensitivities.  It is (again potentially) due to different propagation times for the different amps.  In other words, how long an amplifier takes to process the signal from the input terminals to the output terminals.

I'm driving VonSchweikert VR100XS system using a pair of Lampizator True Balanced 211 Monoblock amps to on the midrange/tweeters and a pair of Spectron Musician III Mk2 monoblocks driving the woofers.  The XS subwoofers get their signal from sense cables attached to the woofer inputs, integrating the bass input signal and the backwave EMF from the tower's woofers.

I've used other combinations of amps on the top and bottom of various speakers and in every case the combined strengths of the different technologies were far superior than biwiring with a single amp.  In my system, the 211's bring excellent time coherence, detail, and timbre resolution.  The Spectrons provide essentially limitless power (I've never heard them sound stressed), very high damping factor, and extremely extended bass response.  As the saying goes, horses for courses.

Best,
Robert

Nice setup there. I don't think I have a delayed/mismatched signal problem. These electronic signals are fast and and any measurable delay is beyond human sensory capabilities? The JBL although not a fancy amp but has very impressive specs. Talking about damping factor, for a 8ohm load the factor is greater than 200 at any freq 20hz to 1khz.

Upon critical thinking I figured my setup already sounded good before the Rogues and my expectation with the Rogues shot up cos of the kind of money I paid........ The top end did get "airy" ...... but I guess for me to see any substantial change beyond what I'm already used to hearing from VR-4's. I will need to step up my VSA game 

[illenema]

Hey Congrats on the purchase of the Big Rogue's. I too am I Rogue/Vr-4 Guy.
Actually Im pretty much went thru the Rogue line. Started with the 120 mono's  Did the 150 mono's (too brite for me) Ended up with the Zeus, which is Close to your monoblocks.
Vr-4 Can use lots of power, every bit of the monos. Should sound great. just try them using the monos bi-wired?
I ended up getting the VR-8's which were giant and sounded great with the zeus.  Ended up selling it all- (after many mono block purchases).  2007.
Im into it again.  2018  Ive purchased a Set of vr-4's and a pair of Rogue 120 monos
After all the amps, speakers, this is the matching that was best.
As far as Bass amps Find a Belles OCM 250.  Killer        ( smoked Krell ect into 8 ohm loads)

[illenema]

Well Here I am again 2022 Bought another pair of the vr-8's.
Using the rogue 120's.
Looking to get a Zeus or apollo monos,
Was running 4 ASL Hurricanes, 32 kt-88's. Too much heat.
Like the single pair of rogue better...

[Avinash]

Looking to get a Zeus or apollo monos

I know, you offered me $5000 for mine 

Good Luck!

[illenema]

I know, you offered me $5000 for mine 

Good Luck!

Just purchased a Pair.