[drhoon]

I have a really nice 4p1l dht line pre-amp but i was wondering if i should sell it and get maybe a Shindo pre-amp with built in phono?

Or it would be better to get a dedicated phono pre-amp to connect to my existing pre-amp?

Thanks..

[Letitroll98]

If you already have a preamp that you like, it's a no brainer to buy a phono pre as you could spend more on the phono section than you would if buying a whole new preamp.

[Elizabeth]

A separate phono box, if you already own a preamp you like.
If you wanted to upgrade the preamp anyway, then buying one which includes a phono section is best.

A phono section can be as small as a little 3"x 2" of circuit board.
To get it as a separate, you add a power supply, a box, connectors. etc. All that costs extra money.

[mix4fix]

Separate is typically better sonically. And, better in the long run because you can upgrade and/or replace easier.

If your phono section of your preamp goes out, you are dead in the water for analog. If you have a separate phono pre-amp and it dies, you can always pull out that spare phono pre-amp, borrow one from a friend, buy another one, etc.

[JakeJ]

I disagree with most here. I have always opted for a preamp with the phono section built in because it eliminates a set of cables and the mechanical connections it introduces.  I have never had a phono section fail that was not attributed to a tube failure.  New tube(s) and away I go.

[toddc2]

Interesting question. I would certainly prefer to have one box but currently have separates. Part of that was finding the preamp sound I was looking for (in my case an ARC Ref2 MkII after trying Ayre and ModWright). The next part was finding a phono that I liked (in my case Whest after trying Zesto and ARC).

I doubt I would replace the separates at this point, but never say never...

Todd

[Don_S]

Separate is typically better sonically. And, better in the long run because you can upgrade and/or replace easier.

If your phono section of your preamp goes out, you are dead in the water for analog. If you have a separate phono pre-amp and it dies, you can always pull out that spare phono pre-amp, borrow one from a friend, buy another one, etc.

Why would a failed phono section in a preamplifier prohibit someone from adding an external phono section connected to a regular analog input? Worrying about a failed phono section in a preamplifier seems unnecessary.

Am I missing something?  I am just returning to vinyl and do not have much familiarity with equipment for vinyl.

[mix4fix]

Why would a failed phono section in a preamplifier prohibit someone from adding an external phono section connected to a regular analog input? Worrying about a failed phono section in a preamplifier seems unnecessary.

Am I missing something?  I am just returning to vinyl and do not have much familiarity with equipment for vinyl.

I am oversimplifying it. If a powered speaker fails, both amp and speaker is dead. If a amplifier fails, you can replace the amplifier and keep going. If a built-in phono input fails, that channel is dead.

I am not implying that anything will fail. But, anything can fail (whether electronic or mechanical). I recommend separate devices; but, it seems he has found a different pre-amp that has peaked his interest.

[mix4fix]

A phono section can be as small as a little 3"x 2" of circuit board.
To get it as a separate, you add a power supply, a box, connectors. etc. All that costs extra money.

I hope you don't use that same analogy when comparing a separate amplifier vs a amplifier section of a A/V receiver.

[Johnny2Bad]

Separates are always better if cost is no object as the versatility and choice cannot be equaled by an integrated solution. Even considering that any built-in phono preamp can be bypassed by a separate line level out option, and in some cases a pre/main option exists, you are still dealing with a component that was designed with the assumption the integrated sections would be present and functional, and there clearly must have been compromises somewhere or at a minimum design decisions that would not have been implemented if the sections were not a one-box affair.

The downside is cost. Integrated solutions offer value that cannot be equalled with separates, because you can't make multi-box solutions, even carrying identical circuits, for the same cost.

As always, the questions that you must answer to yourself remain the same.

Do I have the budget to buy the separates I would prefer?

Do I have the time, space and aesthetic freedom (sometimes referred to as Wife Acceptance Factor, or WAF, although anyone might prioritize appearance) to populate the listening space with multiple boxes?

Can I afford the larger rack versus a smaller one with the same acoustic, aesthetic and practical benefits?

Will others be using the system?

Am I more interested in maximizing value or am I more interested in maximizing choice?

Finally, does the market offer an integrated solution that satisfies my wants and needs, or do I need to choose separates to satisfy that criteria?

[jsm71]

Until recently, when I needed to rethink these pieces, I've always had preamps that contained a phono stage.  The phono stage was simple however, just MM support.  That didn't stop me from using MC carts, it just nudged me into buying a Bobs Devices SUT.  The one I chose allows me a fairly wide range of MC output options given its two gain settings.

This has opened the door to shopping for a great MM phono stage and making a line stage preamp decision independently.  I like this freedom of choice despite needing two extra cables, a second phono cable between the SUT and phono stage, and an IC to the preamp.  I use and like Morrow mid-tier cables for these. 

My phono stage is a custom build tube unit in a nice wooden case from Don Sachs.  It's so superior to the prior captive MM stages I've had in my prior preamps.  I know now how mediocre those were.  One was a McIntosh preamp.  My line stage preamp is the Linear Tube Audio MZ2, also a tube rollers funhouse.   

The beauty of separates as already disclosed is the ability to select best of breed relative to your preferences.  My preference is all tubes.

[twitch54]

If you already have a preamp that you like, it's a no brainer to buy a phono pre as you could spend more on the phono section than you would if buying a whole new preamp.

I agree, that sums it up perfectly !

[plastico]

Separates are always better if cost is no object as the versatility and choice cannot be equaled by an integrated solution. Even considering that any built-in phono preamp can be bypassed by a separate line level out option, and in some cases a pre/main option exists, you are still dealing with a component that was designed with the assumption the integrated sections would be present and functional, and there clearly must have been compromises somewhere or at a minimum design decisions that would not have been implemented if the sections were not a one-box affair.

The downside is cost. Integrated solutions offer value that cannot be equalled with separates, because you can't make multi-box solutions, even carrying identical circuits, for the same cost.

As always, the questions that you must answer to yourself remain the same.

Do I have the budget to buy the separates I would prefer?

Do I have the time, space and aesthetic freedom (sometimes referred to as Wife Acceptance Factor, or WAF, although anyone might prioritize appearance) to populate the listening space with multiple boxes?

Can I afford the larger rack versus a smaller one with the same acoustic, aesthetic and practical benefits?

Will others be using the system?

Am I more interested in maximizing value or am I more interested in maximizing choice?

Finally, does the market offer an integrated solution that satisfies my wants and needs, or do I need to choose separates to satisfy that criteria?

+1
I just got a outboard phono and it blows my built in phono in my ARC SP9 out of the water!!
Cheers, Doug

[JakeJ]

Well don't keep us in suspense, Doug!  Which one did you get?