First impressions of JVC RX-ES1SL (vs. Denon AVR-810)

cmalana · « **on:** 5 Jan 2005, 05:02 pm »

I just received my JVC RX-ES1SL receiver yesterday and here are some initial impressions:

My system:

Receiver: JVC RX-ES1SL (which just replaced a Denon AVR-810)
Source: JVC XV-FA900 DVD changer
Speakers: MA Silver S2
Sub: CSW 12S Sub
Connectors - nothing special...sub connected by Monster sub cable, DVD connected through analog front speaker DVD outputs with AR interconnects

Appearance: The JVC is much slimmer and lighter than the Denon. It's great because I have a lot of room on my rack now.. I'm not sure I like silver and chrome though but strictly a personal preference. Also not much for the blue light in front. I still like the more business-black look of the Denon. But it's the sound we're concerned about right?

Set-up: The JVC was easy to set up. I just made sure it was on 2-channel stereo (with subwoofer on) and speakers set to "large" (no crossover/filtering of lower frequencies from front speakers). My big gripe are the spring-clips for the speaker outputs...but I can live with that. At least the Denon had the banana plugs for the front speakers...I have not tried setting up the surround/center speakers yet (that's this weekend).

Sound: Compared to the Denon's the JVC was definitely brighter out of the box. Playing a Dido CD, her voice definitely took center stage (might be too much but I heard that it settles down after break in). The guitar and other background instruments in some of her songs were not as pronounced as with the Denon. Popping in some Mozart, sound stage seemed bigger, and instruments were much more distinct (especially violins). Playing some reggae/hip hop music, everything sounded more dynamic. I'm also needing to play around with the cross-over and volume of the subwoofer (it has it's own amp and variable cross-over). I had it where I wanted it with the Denon but it doesn't seem to work for the JVC at this time. I think I had x-over set around 80-90 Hz before and I'm already needing to set it lower.

I'll provide more updates as I get the system broken in and more set-up

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 05:08 pm »

Glad that you found one, and that you have been able to get it into place in your system.

For the record, it may take around 300 hours for the treble to smooth out, and for the sound to settle in.

BTW, the blue bar is easy enough to dim, I found that helps.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 09:37 pm »

Oh yeah, like Mark said, give it another 299 hours and decide.

If you like it now....just wait.

What's an MA Silver S2? IS it Monitor Audio - if so, you're gonna' love digital amplification on those metal cones, bro.

Jay S · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 02:55 am »

Yup, digital amps typically have better bass control than analog amps... combine that with a rigid metal cone...

Given that your speakers are rated down to 40 Hz, try setting your sub's XO to 60 Hz and then go (lower?) from there. Specs don't tell the whole story and room are different but, FYI, my speakers are rated down to 33 Hz and I have my sub's XO (a steep 4th order XO that rolls off bass at -24dB/octave) set to 35 Hz. You should also try experimenting with the phase control of your sub.

How are your Monitor Audio speakers currently positioned? You could get a slightly hollow bass heavy sound if they are too close to the rear or side wall (try for a foot or more distance). Also, if they are currently toed in (e.g. not facing straight ahead but are angled slightly towards the center) then you could achieve a less precise center image (and a bit less treble) if you reduced the toe-in a bit.

As for break in... just leave the radio on at a low volume 24x7 and you'll log 300 hours in just over 12 days.

Enjoy!

Dmason · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 03:00 am »

When I first stumbled across the JVC, I then auditioned it hooked up to some Monitor Audio Silver S6. What a great combination, the speaker control of digital amps and the light, fast, well designed MA metal drivers. For the life of me I cannot understand why these speakers are NOT more popular. They to me, represent a wonderful value, IF you do things like give them better acoustic damping. I bet the pairing with the Silver S2 is going to sound very good indeed.

Metal drivers and digital amps. Very organic sounding. exactly my words at the beginning of the original thread on the ES1. The Jordans sound even nicer to me, which is what my F10 is employed at right now.

cmalana · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 03:04 pm »

Yes, MA does mean Monitor Audio. Always knew of the brand but couldn't resist the clearance sale at a local mid-fi/hi-fi audio shop (affiliated with tweeters). Apparently, they are no longer going to carry Monitor Audios since MA can't supply all the tweeter locations. Don't know if that's just the sales pitch...In any case, it's the first "expensive" speakers I've purchased -- of course, I now know they were actually cheap compared to some of the stuff out there! My last audio spending was done over 10 years ago and I bought Cambridge Soundworks products (back when they only had a handful).

I've been experimenting with toe-in and i know i'm not optimally set-up yet. I have to rearrange the rack and room set-up a bit so there will be more changes.

I'll update this thread over the next few weeks on how it sounds.

Thanks for the input.

cmalana · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 03:59 pm »

Almost 2 weeks since the last update and I have some new observations that I hope I get feedback on.

1.) The receiver is definitely on the path to getting broken in. Probably has over 150 hrs right now and I know I still have a ways to go. When I first got it, I was getting a bit concerned about the dominating vocals (especially on Dido CD), but that's toned down quite a bit.

2.) Last night, I did a little experiment with power conditioners. I bought a OneAC CP1107 (750va, 6.3 amp power conditioner) and I tried plugging in the receiver 3 ways and the DVD player 2 ways. My results were interesting in that it was not what I was expecting:

- I plugged the receiver to the power conditioner, straight to the wall, and a monster surge suppressor. I even alternated several times to see what was going on. Here's the surprise. When I plugged it into the power conditioner, it sounded more muddy....vocals weren't as pronounced on Maroon 5 CD. When I plugged it into the wall, it was better than power conditioner (better meaning much more vocal presence, separation between instruments). I then plugged it into the surge suppressor and it was even better than plugging straight to wall outlet!!! Anyone care to explain why that is?

- I did the same thing with the DVD player, but this time just either to power conditioner or to the surge suppressor. The surge suppresor sounded better. I confirmed my observations with another listener and we had agreement.

The CP1107 has more than 5x the drain of the receiver (and definitely the DVD player) and should have enough headroom but the sound was still highly affected...I have a powervar ABC1600 coming and that is rated at 1920VA and 16 amps. I'll perform the same experiment when I get it.

2.) I was switching between DVD Multi and DVD (where it shows analog and surround setting set to Stereo). DVD Multi is definitely clearer with better separation between instruments. For example, snare drums had more presence on DVD Multi than DVD (even though it said analog/stereo). However, I do wish I can use my subwoofer on DVD multi. I connected the sub out from DVD to the Receiver but still not getting a signal to the sub. I get the sub fine in DVD setting. By the way, is there anything wrong with using say the TV audio input (i think it only has left and right input so would that be equivalent to DVD multi?).

More to come as I get it broken in some more...as well as when i get powervar.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 11:07 pm »

Nope, dvd multi is the only setting free of processing. You can use your subwoofer's speaker level input for dvd multi use.

I have the opposite experience with my oneac cp1110. I get much more sense of phase and space with the cp1110 in place. Without the cp1110, it's as if the room the music was recorded in has disappeared and the players are more or less in my room instead. Phase funk is much easier to hear with the cp1110 in place.

cmalana · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Jan 2005, 12:27 am »

That's the strange part. I invested on the power conditioners based on previous posts by RX-ES1SL users. I am thinking that the CP1107 was too small now (your CP1110 is a 1000VA, 8.4 Amp model) hence my desire to test it on the much biggger Powervar that is arriving. There could also be something wrong with my CP1107! Is your OneAC conditioner stock? Perhaps some mods are needed first since I've also read that the ES1SL is very sensitive to tweaks/mods (including the power supply).

As I kept switching, I knew that subconsciously, i was expecting it to sound better with the power conditioner...but after switching it 3 times, it was VERY clear which one was better. It wasn't even subtle. I had a harder time deciding which one was better between plugging it straight to the wall outlet or to the surge suppressor, but the conditioner was clearly the worst.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Jan 2005, 06:13 am »

The conditioner is bone stock. I've done nothing to it yet, though I suppose I will some day if I can find explicit enough instructions. My unit is dead quiet, btw. No hum from this sucker. At least none that I have noticed with my head anywhere up to 1 foot away from the conditioner. I freely admit I have not laid my head down on top of the conditioner,