Harsh grainy vocals on Magnepan 3.7i

johnto · « **on:** 22 Mar 2018, 02:33 pm »

Recently moved from 1.7 i to 3.7i keeping the same Parasound Halo 2.1 integrated . For some reason I am noticing a lot of harsh grainy sounding vocals especially during chorus singing on both lp's and CD's.
Music sounds great just having problems with voices.
Most of my listening is r&r. Some records sound fine but others are almost becoming unlistenable.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 02:41 pm »

How many hard/loud hours do you have on them?

rollo · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 02:52 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 22 Mar 2018, 02:41 pm

How many hard/loud hours do you have on them?

Exactly. They need 200 hours minimum. Just in case check that all connections are solid. Ya never know.

charles

johnto · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:03 pm »

I have at least the 200 hours on them. I've tried with and without resistors and swapping speaker wires.

rollo · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:21 pm »

Hmmm. Plan "B". Are speakers used ? maybe something is up there. Parasound is built like a tank and should not be issue however never know.
Both channels are harsh grainy ? Let's narrow this down.

charles

johnto · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:27 pm »

Yes both channels. I did buy an almost new pair from a dealer. Wonder could they be too sensitive and showing over saturation in the recording process?

thunderbrick · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:36 pm »

Doubt it.

rollo · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:39 pm »

OK then. The 3.7i tweeter is more revealing than the 1.7. The puzzle is that both LP and CD sound that way. Could you try a different amp ? If same occurs it is the speaker. Clean speaker inputs, check all connections and listen again.
Or it just could be the new speaker is just more revealing and exposing something else in the system. Can you switch out the IC or speaker cable ? We ned to try as much as possible to determine if speaker or ????

charles

nickd · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:58 pm »

My guess is you might be hearing clipping from the integrated amp. Maggie’s are famous for being power hungry. By that, I mean stiff power supply’s and high current amps tend to sound better with them. Perhaps the 3.7 is a tricky load compared to the 1.7?

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 04:28 pm »

What gauge speaker cable are you using? Doubt it is the problem but with my first pair of maggies I had el crapo 16g wire and a receiver. It had a harsh sound. Switched to 10g and all was well.

Does it sound harsh at low volumes or just at higher volumes, if so then the issue could be the amp running out of steam. Although, Parasound Halo gear usually is bullet proof. I own an A21. The integrated is lower power and current and may not be able to handle dips below 4 ohms well.

Consider taking your Integrated and DAC to the dealer and hook them up to a pair of 3.7's and see if they have the same issue. Then you will have your answer if it is your speakers or amp.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 04:46 pm »

I have owned Magnepan IIs, 3.6s, and now 20.7s
If you have any harshness on vocals it is probably a problem with the AC power supply.
(I would call digital, but if it is on LP too...
I would try to borrow a power conditioner and see if that clears up the problem.

IMO if you hear it on vocal, it is because you 'know' vocals better than instrument voicing.

johnto · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 05:38 pm »

Hey everyone thanks for responding. Speaker cable's are 8 guage I did try an older monster cable I had with the same results. I will try to borrow another amp and see if anything changes.

GregDunn · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 06:03 pm »

Generally with good quality equipment like you have, harshness in a Magneplanar midrange is either a big peak in the frequency response or high distortion. Don't waste your time with cables, power, and the like. Have you checked the frequency response? Confirmed that the amps aren't clipping on peaks?

rollo · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 06:03 pm »

The Parasound will not run out of steam as it is 240W/ch into 4 Ohm. Speaker wires in phase ? Check please. Either your amp went bonkers all of a sudden [ which I doubt ] it just maybe the speaker itself. This should not happen by going up the model line. Makes no sense.
Everything was good before the new speaker. Was speaker ever repaired ?

charles

johnto · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 06:09 pm »

As far as I know it was not repaired. I was told it was only used about 20 hrs before I purchased it. (Estate sale) have no reason to doubt store as it has an excellent reputation.
Will double check that everything is in phase .

Emil · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 06:55 pm »

Could be a bad capacitor/resistor/inductor in the crossover?

Emil · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 07:12 pm »

Quote from: johnto on 22 Mar 2018, 06:09 pm

As far as I know it was not repaired. I was told it was only used about 20 hrs before I purchased it. (Estate sale) have no reason to doubt store as it has an excellent reputation.
Will double check that everything is in phase .

Cables? Phase? Break in? Parasound? We're barking up the wrong tree here
Have you contacted the dealer? returnable?
Ask to borrow an amp and if the situation is the same, its the 3.7s and ask for a refund.

These 3.7s could have been defective from day 1 for all we know

richidoo · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 22 Mar 2018, 02:41 pm

How many hard/loud hours do you have on them?

Once again, Wind Chaser hits the nail.

Grainy, edgy, lack of refinement, kazoo-like tone, that's the capacitors, probably series caps on high pass filter is the most offensive.

Film caps require a good amount of voltage to break in. You have to play them loud or they will never break in. Just 10 hours of very high volume will make a huge difference. Even 200 hours of playing Spandau Ballet at 80dB won't get 'er done.

Loud means you need to go into the other room. You will not hurt anything if you stay below the speaker wattage rating. It may take a strong amp to sustain that much voltage for long enough to break in Maggies. It doesn't take that long to hear a difference. Play a few hard rock albums like that then listen for a change.

I recently bought used speakers, 3yo, I'm 3rd owner. They were still not broken in when I got them! Their high sensitivity makes them play loud enough (for civilized people) at 1/2W so they don't get turned up enough to break in the caps, and woofers. But they are designed to play very loud, and that's why I bought them, so after only about 10 hours of playing compressed rock about 50-75W (~110dB) they opened up tremendously, sounded much more relaxed, and all the edgy kazoo tone was gone.

Emil · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 08:52 pm »

Lets see is Richidoo is correct

A call out to all 3.7i owners that purchased their speakers brand spanking new.
Have you experienced harsh, grainy vocals similar to what Johnto is experiencing during the first 200 hours??

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 09:09 pm »

Emil,

Keep in mind there may be some 3.7i owners who’d tell you that Johnto’s speakers sound just fine. When it comes to perception, we don’t always agree with each other because we don’t all share the same point of reference, nor do we all perceive and hear the same.

Furthermore, I seriously doubt Johnto’s speakers are defective.