Eton drivers/ 8.1 kit

Arctos · « **on:** 1 Jan 2005, 11:08 pm »

Anyone have experience with or knowledge of Eton drivers? There is a kit offered by Madisound using Eton drivers called the Eton 8.1 tower that looks intriguing. I am considering options for a set of large cabinets I have built and this kit may do the trick, but I don't know anything about Eton. They look nice and they are fairly expensive, but this doesn't always mean high quality.

Kit uses the following Eton drivers:

8-800/37 Hex woofer
25 SD1 tweet

Thanks,

R

PS: Already looked into Dennis Murphy's Vifa Tower but found that my 2.2 cu. ft. cabinets seem to be too large.

stvnharr · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Jan 2005, 01:49 am »

Eton drivers are among the very best. I have built an 8.1 and it is a fine speaker. There is also a modified version of the 8.1 offered by Meniscus that uses the ScanSpeak Revelator 9900 tweeter. And I believe there now is also an 8.2 kit that is a 3 way design, still using the 8-800 driver. The Eton 8-800 is an excellent woofer than has excellent bass performance as well as being flat out to nearly 2k hz.
Eton's are generally overlooked drivers, but do offer very good performance. They are used by two rather expensive commercial companies, Avalon and Kharma. There are also some other companies that use the 11" bass driver in very expensive designs. The Eton tweeters are not used very much, but do perform well.
GR Research has a couple speakers using the 5" Eton mid, with excellent results.

Arctos · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 03:08 am »

Thanks for the info. How would you describe the qualities of the 8.1's that you built? Strengths? Weaknesses? Are they similar sounding to any commercial models you know of?

I am really torn between the 8.1 kit and Dennis Murphy's Vifa tower. I thought my cabinets would be too big (for either kit) but have found a way to reduce the volume without too much work so now either one will work.

Vifa pro's: cheaper, Dennis Murphy's recommendation.
Vifa con's: probably not as refined as the Eton drivers, xovers must be constructed by me

Eton pro's: great drivers, kit includes constructed xovers
Eton con's: higher cost, concern that the drivers frequency ranges will be strained (8-800 max is 2,000hz, 25 SD1 min is 2,000hz)

Guess I have some thinking to do.

Regards,

R

_scotty_ · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Jan 2005, 04:10 pm »

Arctos, you sort of have your cart in front of your horse regarding your speaker project. You will have to acquire a software program or have someone run the numbers on any speakers you are interested in to see if your cabinets will work with them. As your cabinets are already built you may find that your choices for drivers are rather limited. Most DIY speaker projects involve deciding which driver you wish to construct a speaker system with and then building a suitable cabinet. If your cabinet is too large
you can shrink it by adding blocks of blue or pink styrofoam insulation glued to the internal walls of the cabinet with liquid nails. The amount air volume you need to reduce the cabinet by can be determined via software program and amount of foam can be cut to fit. This technique can be used to broaden your number of possible driver options. Good luck with your project, Scotty

Arctos · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 03:32 am »

Scotty,
Yeah, I kind of made a mess of this project! Here's my story: I originally built the cabinets specifically for a design called the KLS-9 using Audax drivers. I found out too late that the HM210Z0 drivers were out of production. I did locate and purchase a pair of used drivers, but I don't know if they are in good shape or not, as I have not tested them (they look OK). Concerned about the condition of the drivers, then about the quality of the crossover design for the KLS-9 I decided to look into other options, thus the Vifa tower and Eton 8.1 interest.

Dennis Murphy recommended that I add a shelf in the bottom of the cabinet that can be used to house the network or for mass loading. It will eat up some of the volume and get me very close to optimal for his design. I have never heard of the idea of using styrofoam insulation. Is it acoustically inert enough to be a good option (as good as the shelf)? This would be much easier than adding an additional shelf, which will be tough since three sides plus top and bottom of the cabinets are already assembled.

Regards,

R

_scotty_ · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Jan 2005, 06:48 pm »

The styrofoam has very little mass and is not acoustically inert at all. If it is glued to a wall of the enclosure the mass it is attached to will damp it effectively.The reason it works to take up unwanted cabinet volume lies in the fact that it is relatively incompressible compared to air and does not behave in a reactive manner. It also weighs less than an equivalent brick of the same size. I do not recommend using it as a shelf, it is not strong enough for this application. Adding the shelf out of wood is the best possible brace for the cabinet and it will suppress standing waves in the box and reduce the magnitude of resonance modes in the walls and raise their frequency. If you can add a second shelf brace on the opposite wall only lower or higher you are even further ahead.You might look at the these HI-VI
Research drivers;F8 Bass-Midrange,D8G Bass-Midrange. See link http://www.swanspeaker.com/drivers/buglelist.asp?type=8
These drivers are available from PartsExpress
Hope this info helps. Scotty

Arctos · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Jan 2005, 04:34 pm »

Thanks Scotty,
I think I will probably go with a shelf of 1" MDF just below the port tube to eat up the excess volume. I was concerned about how to glue it in place since the cabinet is assembled with the exception of the baffle, but think I can just glue the shelf to braces in the lower chamber. Then I can seal the top of the shelf in the driver chamber with latex caulk. I think I have decided on the Vifa towers due to cost and Dennis Murphy's support of this design.

Those Hi-Vi drivers look sweet, but I don't know enough about crossover design, etc to build something from scratch. I need a detailed plan until I become educated in the technical aspects of this hobby. Right now I am just a decent wood worker that is dabbling in speaker building. Electronics are not my forte, yet! Hope my 40 watt AMC integrated will drive these things appropriately.

Regards,

R

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Jan 2005, 08:05 pm »

The DIY, nearly single driver Hammer 12 called for using the styofoam peanuts that the drivers came with to fill the extra cabinet volume (it was an all around quirky darn design). The designer died and his widow kept trying to sell the idea. Some swore by it, some at it. The large cabinet included a pretty useless port near the bottom that you could watch the peanuts stirring around during heavy bass output.

stvnharr · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Jan 2005, 11:16 pm »

Artctos, Sorry for the slow reply. And I gather that you have pretty much decided on the Vifa project for your cabinets.
I liked the Eton speaker quite a bit. I did not have the optimal cabinets for the project, yet it was still quite a good speaker. I ended up going to a speaker with the SS9900 tweeter, which made this an expensive speaker. The basic 8.1 with Eton SD-25 tweeter is plenty good however.
The strengths of the Eton speaker is a fabulous bass response from the 8-800 driver, better really than any other 2 way speaker design. I also found it worked best with good solid state amplification. Soundwise I found the Eton to be a notch below the Seas Excel Mag drivers, and a fair bit better, as in more precise and detailed, than a Vifa based speaker that was A/B'ed with my speaker.

awm · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Jan 2005, 01:42 am »

Hi, Arctos -- I have a fair amount of experience with Etons, Vifas, and SEAS. I'd strongly recommend the Etons. I have 2 pairs of the Eton 11.2, which I feel is an incredible value. (I'd recommend just building that one, actually...)

The Eton drivers offer better detail and naturalness than the Vifas. I do believe that the crossover designed my DM for the Vifas probably extracts more out of them than can be said about the Etons and the 8.1's xover. This is speculation, of course, and I might be way off. I do believe the Etons to be capable of more, all else being equal.

I agree that the Etons are just a slight margin below the SEAS Excels, but only in terms of the last bits of detail. That being said, my 11.2's sound more like my Senn HD-600 headphones (a very accurate set of cans, in case you're unfamiliar with them) than any of my other speakers, which include the Ellis 1801b's, the SPCA's (essentially DM's MB1's), the M8amkIV's (of Jonmarsh fame, which consist of a Hi-Vi 8" woofer with a Vifa xt-25 1" tweeter).

Also, the Eton woofs have been used in some very highly reviewed, expensive speaks including the Avalon Ascents, which were also a 2-way. Finally, I feel that the Eton tweets are underrated. The SD-19's in my 11.2's are almost at the level of the OW1's in my 1801b's. That's pretty high praise. But, then again, just MHO...

Either choice would I'm sure be quite good, btw...

Andy

Arctos · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 03:59 am »

Thanks guys,
You are really making my final decision pretty tough! The Eton's seem like a great option based on your comments and would be cheaper than any Seas Excel options that I have seen out there (not much for anything near my cabinet size). Cost is definitely an issue here so I need to decide whether or not the Eton 8.1 (the 11.2 is out of my price range right now) are worth the extra $200 that they would cost over the Vifa option. I priced both out and I can get all the components for the Vifa tower for about $300 and the Eton stuff is $495 plus shipping from Meniscus or Madisound.

Andy, I did notice your comments about DM's crossover vs the Eton. In general do you think that a great crossover with good drivers will sound better than a good crossover with great drivers? Hope this makes sense!

Regards,

R

awm · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 09:03 pm »

Hi, Arctos -- I definitely understand your question. The problem is, there isn't a simple answer. A crappy xover with great drivers can sound wretched. A good (not phenomenal) xover with great drivers can sound very good. A phenomenal xover with decent drivers can sound very good, or not. Depends on the drivers -- silk purses out of sow's ears 'n all... Wish I or anyone could give you a definitive answer to this. If it were I in your shoes, I'd go with the Etons. I'm obviously biased. But, I did own a pair of Snell EIII's, which were a 2-way with a 1" tweet and an 8" woof. The drivers were Vifas and, though I forget which, the 8" might have been the same as DM's Vifa tower. I liked the speakers a lot and they had wonderful bass for a two-way. But, they lacked the detail and imaging that I like that I've found with the Etons.

One final thing -- remember that there are usually compromises when going with an 8" woof in a 2-way. I've owned a couple, including the frequently raved about M8mkIV, and still feel this way.

Good luck,
Andy

stvnharr · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Jan 2005, 10:27 pm »

Arctos, I'll just add a couple words or so here. I'd highly recommend you go with the Eton kit. For the little bit extra money you get a lot more refinement in the music that you'll be very pleased with in the long term.
Eton's are great value and good for any kind of music. They are a nice blend of detail and music fullness.

Arctos · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Jan 2005, 03:29 am »

Thanks again guys,
I am requesting info about the specific crossover components that are standard with the Eton 8.1 kit. I want to make sure they are up to par. I am still undecided, but you both have given me some very compelling reasons to go with the Eton's. Let you know when I finally pull the trigger, which should be in the next few weeks or so.

One last question: should I be concerned that the 8-800 driver specs show a max frequency of 2000Hz and the 25 SD1 tweeter shows a 2000Hz minimum? My concern is that the design is pushing the drivers to their limits.

Regards,

R

bigmatt · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Feb 2005, 11:29 am »

Arctos,

what was your decision in the end? I'm curious because I've been looking to build a kit. I've never built anything and am looking for something relatively easy. I spoke with David Ellis and he recommended the Vifa Tower based on my music preference and current electronic setup.

-Matt

Al Garay · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Feb 2005, 04:17 pm »

Matt,

What is your music preference and current electronic setup? Are you planning to upgrade... once you have the bug, you will.

Al

bigmatt · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Feb 2005, 12:50 am »

I listen primarily to indie rock...typicallly not the best recorded music out there. I have a JVC receiver right now...I will be upgrading as this was a stop-gap solution, but I'm not certain when that will be. Also, since this will be my first woodworking project I don't mind leaving myself room to grow as far as the speakers are concerned.

-Matt

Al Garay · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Feb 2005, 04:05 am »

I can see why Dave Ellis may have thought the 1801s may not be the optimal solution. But I would not take them off your list. They're darn good as well as good looking for a 2-way. I also think that the 1801b crossover, which is the current standard, had made a major difference in letting the 1801s be more listenable/forgiving than the original 1801a crossover.

If you have the room (to locate them correctly) and budget for the Eton 11.2 kit, do not hesitate. The 8.2 kit is another 3-way that should be less expensive and easier to locate (narrower cabinet).

MeniscusAudio.com also has kits using Eton drivers that are worth considering. I have listened to Andy's (awm) Eton 11.2s many times and wish I still had a pair which are now sounding amazing in Andy's HT room even driven by Panasonix XR45 receiver.

Al

Arctos · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Feb 2005, 04:09 am »

bigmatt,
Sorry for the delay, but I was traveling. I have not yet committed to a design, but am leaning pretty heavily toward the Vifa Tower. The folks that have replied to my post have offered some very compelling information and guidance towards the Eton 8.1 kit. The main reason I am leaning toward the Vifa is cost and the fact that Dennis Murphy designed the crossover.

Our musical tastes are quite different, as I am into some rock but quite a bit of jazz, classical and Cuban as well. I want something capable of some good dynamics but detail is the key for me. I have heard great things about the Eton kits, especially the 3-ways, but I want to stick with a simple 2-way design. The Eton drivers seem to be a level above the Vifa stuff, but the crossover can make quite a bit of difference too. I'm not sure where I am going with all of this, but without hearing the finished product of either model it is tough to feel confident in either one, so cheaper is appealing right now. I must say that having Dave Ellis recommend the Vifa means something to me as well. I have had some contact with him as well and have a great deal of confidence in his advice.

Good luck and I will let you all know what I commit to soon.

Regards,

R