ELAC Adante AS-61

TrungT · « **on:** 2 Mar 2018, 12:48 am »

Sawing an ELAC speaker in half to see how it's built

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Mar 2018, 01:09 pm »

Thanks for the link!

Having a hard time getting my head around:

- rear chamber seems small

- what the point is of putting a passive radiator in front of the bass driver/port

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Mar 2018, 03:36 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 2 Mar 2018, 01:09 pm

Thanks for the link!

Having a hard time getting my head around:

- rear chamber seems small

- what the point is of putting a passive radiator in front of the bass driver/port

ELAC used to have a detailed picture of the enclosure and description; unfortunately they removed that link. That being said, this is basically a modified series tuned 6th order bandpass design. They are indeed complex to design and as such are not really meant for diy unless you are going to build prototype after prototype along with loads of measurements and modeling. I am pretty sure AJ has done it right and probably has some notch filters thrown in to remove out of band resonances seen in typical 6th order BP designs. The passive radiator is a smart move.

http://www.diysubwoofers.org/bnd/6thord4.htm

A diagram is included in the above link. Remember passive radiators and ports are somewhat interchangeable with these theoretical drawings.

AJ is being smart about using a passive radiator when coupling the resulting LF output to the outside world as it limits out of band resonances and sounds cleaner especially at higher SPL than the typical port in 6th order BP designs.

Best,
Anand.

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Mar 2018, 02:17 pm »

Oh yeah, now I recall seeing such subwoofers years ago. So it would have a very fast (36 dB/octave) roll-off, making it hard to blend with a sub and not satisfying the ear in terms of providing deep bass. Note that the ear can be fooled with a 1st order (6 dB/octave) roll-off into sounded like it's going lower than it actually is.

Rusty Jefferson · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Mar 2018, 07:32 pm »

A nice explanation from Jones, with Michael Fremer. I'd like to hear them.

https://youtu.be/MxLBThFHIeA

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Mar 2018, 11:44 am »

F3 = 42 Hz from a $6,500 pair of floor standers? The JBL LSR305 ($300/pair 2-way active monitor) does that, so not impressed.

The passive radiator used to filter port noise/etc.? Sorry but again not impressed, frankly haven't been all that impressed with the B6 or UB5 that a friend has/had either.

OTOH haven't heard them for myself.

stonedeaf · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Mar 2018, 05:10 pm »

Somewhat off topic - but I got my AF-61 Friday. I'm impressed ! particularly useful are the two velvet bags that are the innermost packaging . These come in handy as blankets while sleeping on the couch -awaiting SWMBO'd to adjust to the AF 61 (which have replaced the KEF LS-50's). Off to work -will post a longer initial impression this evening.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Mar 2018, 09:13 pm »

Quote from: stonedeaf on 4 Mar 2018, 05:10 pm

Somewhat off topic - but I got my AF-61 Friday. I'm impressed ! particularly useful are the two velvet bags that are the innermost packaging . These come in handy as blankets while sleeping on the couch -awaiting SWMBO'd to adjust to the AF 61 (which have replaced the KEF LS-50's). Off to work -will post a longer initial impression this evening.

Can't wait to hear how they compare to the ls50s!

srb · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Mar 2018, 10:04 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 4 Mar 2018, 09:13 pm

Can't wait to hear how they compare to the ls50s!

If so, it will be comparing a $5000 3-way 5-driver floorstander (Elac AF-61) to a $1500 2-way 2-driver standmount (KEF LS-50) .....

roscoeiii · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Mar 2018, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: srb on 4 Mar 2018, 10:04 pm

If so, it will be comparing a $5000 3-way 5-driver floorstander (Elac AF-61) to a $1500 2-way 2-driver standmount (KEF LS-50) .....

Oops. Thought it was the monitors that were replacing the LS50s. Still interested in the comparison though.

stonedeaf · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Mar 2018, 04:58 pm »

Current issue (Feb. 2018) of hi fi news and RR has a review and test report on the AS-61 (p38-41).
Since ELAC's quoted freq. response spec is within the always popular DC to light plus/minus infinity scale - I was particularly interested in this spec (read the review for quibbles ). Compared to the speakers output at 200hz - the -6 dB point is 46 hz. Efficiency is a couple of dB short of ELAC's spec and Paul Miller's test report makes the point that a amplifier able to drive into low impedance load is likely necessary.The listener review was very positive.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:47 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 4 Mar 2018, 09:13 pm

Can't wait to hear how they compare to the ls50s!

Better yet, the KEF Q750

http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/reference-components/1146-recommended-reference-component-kef-q750-loudspeakers

srb · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 03:58 pm »

Quote from: fredgarvin on 22 Mar 2018, 03:47 pm

Better yet, the KEF Q750

Better yet, to be fair to KEF, the $5K ELAC AF-61 should be compared to the $5K KEF R900, not the $1500 KEF Q750.

stonedeaf · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 04:11 pm »

Haven't heard either of the KEF's ya'll reference - our local KEF dealer seems to pretty much focus on the LS-50 line ( sure doesn't hurt that these have a reasonable WAF) - I do find the mids/highs of the AF-61's ( I assume this would be equally true of the other two speakers in this line?) are superior to the LS-50's in terms of being just a bit smoother across the range they handle - will freely admit I have a prejudice in favor of soft dome tweeters - how much this past experience is influencing me - hard to say. The deep bass is lovely -fast and remarkably uncoloured - more like a Magnipan than a cone driven woofer.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Mar 2018, 08:50 pm »

Quote from: srb on 22 Mar 2018, 03:58 pm

Better yet, to be fair to KEF, the $5K ELAC AF-61 should be compared to the $5K KEF R900, not the $1500 KEF Q750.

A closer price match true, I mistakenly remembered the R900 as not featuring the uniQ driver. So I didn't mention it. But it does indeed and goes much deeper than the Q750.

vulcanore · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Jun 2018, 01:26 pm »

I have a pair of Elac As61 and they are fantastic, I have them run in for a couple of months now and they sing so so good. I had maggies before and also owned Martin Logans but now in a smaller room and so went for the Elac and so grateful I did they sound so good.
I am using Roon into an STOM sms200 and then into a Wyred for sound ST1000 so the amp is just ticking over. MIdrange is lovely, Bass is accurate and top rings true.
Listen not just read reviews I listened to the KEF and to the B&W also to a few others but use a couple of discs you know well and say one with rain in and see if the others can reproduce the rain as clearly as the Elac do then try a voiced CD and then try something like Dam in China from the Album HUMAN for a Chinese drum hear the skin feel the beat and then using your ears buy what you think is best this is what I did.
I love them and if someone offered me my maggies back I would stay with my ELac As61

richidoo · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Jun 2018, 02:01 pm »

Quote from: vulcanore on 8 Jun 2018, 01:26 pm

I have a pair of Elac As61 and they are fantastic

Welcome to AudioCircle vulcanore!

I was surprised to see that the AS61 cost as much as they do. I thought Elac was a very low price brand, but it looks like they have come through on their promise to bring out higher performance speakers also. $2500/pair. They also have a floorstanding tower version with 3 woofers and a little more sensitivity. Interesting bass alignment, with one internal port linking active internal 6" driver to 8" external passive radiator. Coax, time aligned, soft dome tweeter, I'm curious to hear these. Thanks!

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Jun 2018, 02:47 pm »

My wife and had a chance to hear these at AXPONA. They had great bass and dynamics, and did everything well really. I have KEF Q300's in my home theater system, and the cohesive coaxial driver sound was apparent. The Elac's bass was far more powerful than my humble Q300's (sans subwoofers of course). The vinyl front end and Alchemy electronics they used were apparently well matched.

This was one of the handful of rooms we went back to twice. In fact we went back shortly after hearing the incredible MBL room and were surprised at how much we still enjoyed the Elac after hearing that jaw-dropping speaker. Definitely the best moderately priced system we heard.

stonedeaf · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Jun 2018, 04:34 pm »

I have continued to enjoy the AF-61 (tower/3 woofers) - couple of things that have been a surprise to me ? I have a few four/five channel amps because there are a unassembled pair of Linkwitz LXmini's in the basement -and I keep finding amps for those. I have so far tried :Lexican 512/Bryston 9ST , four Wyred 4 sound mAMP, 2 Crown XLS-1502 and 4 Marantz HT mono amps as both vertical bi-amp and just a single amp channel driving the AF-61's. Frankly - I find vertical bi-amping ( no crossovers -just links removed and amps hooked up to the terminals on the back of the speakers) usually to be a wash - personally don't play music loud enough to benefit from this arrangement ? So it's sorta something to try -with limited expectations . With this wide variety of amps ALL sounded better run as single amp channel per speaker - not bi-amp. Oddly enough - the bass had less depth and authority run passively bi-amped. BTW- the best amp I've used so far has been my very old Pass designed Threshold S200 optical bias amp -run in stereo of course/not biamped .
My personal experience with the AXPONA room and the AS61 was -WAY TOO LOUD. We were pretty quickly driven out of the room by the SPL.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Nov 2019, 05:25 pm »

To all,

This is the best explanation (from AJ) I have read regarding the ELAC Adante bass system without getting into the details of bandpass designs, etc...

“When I put a box with a passive radiator over the front of a ported-box loudspeaker, that cavity combined with the mass of the port or passive radiator is a second-order acoustic low-pass filter. The speaker already rolls off at low frequencies as all speakers do. But now it’s forced to roll off at my chosen crossover frequency – in this case 200Hz – but it’s a second-order acoustic filter.

If I want a third-order response overall, then we only need to add a first-order electrical crossover. And there’s an advantage to splitting the task between the passive network and the acoustic filter.

Imagine I’ve got a regular woofer and I put a third-order electrical network on it. Well, in a perfect system it’s doing the same job. But what it’s doing is filtering the input signal to the driver, not the output from it, and that’s a subtle but important distinction because all drivers have some amount of distortion.

Now, Adante uses internal ports, but all ports have some form of noise. If I’m only filtering the input signal then I’m not filtering the noise of the port. And I’m not filtering some of the distortion components.

Suppose I put a 100Hz tone into the woofer and it’s got some distortion – the third harmonic is at 300Hz. That comes straight out.

However, if I put a second-order acoustic filter after the driver, that third-order harmonic is attenuated, so I’ve effectively reduced the harmonic distortion of the speaker. I’ve also filtered off some of the chirping noises of the port. So I’ve got an advantage by putting the filter after rather than in front of the driver.“

This is similar to the bandpass subs I used to use as my midbass modules. However, since upgrading the drivers, the need for keeping the enclosure as a bandpass was lessened as the drivers intrinsically had even lower distortion than the ones they replaced. So now, they are sealed boxes. Moreover, the top end of the new sub drivers were even more linear than the previous, so again a bandpass acoustic filter wasn’t required. The tradeoff? The new driver costs 3 times more.

Best,
Anand.