Couple of Questions @ H-Frames

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emailtim

Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« on: 22 Feb 2018, 07:14 pm »
I have a couple of questions about H-Frames.

1) If one was to physically align woofers facing front and back, what would be the ideal vertical alignment plane on the woofers (e.g. bottom of cone, half the depth of the cone, half the volume of the cone, outer edge of the cone, or something else) ?

2) Instead of stacking multiple drivers immediately on top of each other, would it be acoustically beneficial to vertically space them out into more of a taller line array of a triple or a quad to match the height of your main line arrays (or would this be more dependent) ?

3) Where are the prices listed on the HX800 amps ?

TIA


Captainhemo

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #1 on: 22 Feb 2018, 09:20 pm »
A set of quads  ends up being pretty tall with our modular subs ,   .... 59.5" ,  a 6 stack  would be  88"  (those measurements are  withthe  1.25"  base and top plates).
IIRC, the  HX800's  are  $570 from Danny...





Don't think you'd get any benifit by spacing them  vertically

jay

Danny Richie

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Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #2 on: 22 Feb 2018, 09:40 pm »
I have a couple of questions about H-Frames.

1) If one was to physically align woofers facing front and back, what would be the ideal vertical alignment plane on the woofers (e.g. bottom of cone, half the depth of the cone, half the volume of the cone, outer edge of the cone, or something else) ?

Ideally the voice coil is what is used. But it really doesn't matter too much at those wavelengths. A 20Hz note is 56 feet long. So how many degrees of phase rotation is a few inches? The same can be said for a 40Hz note that is 28 feet long etc.

Quote
2) Instead of stacking multiple drivers immediately on top of each other, would it be acoustically beneficial to vertically space them out into more of a taller line array of a triple or a quad to match the height of your main line arrays (or would this be more dependent) ?

Won't make any difference. The wavelengths are too long.

Quote
3) Where are the prices listed on the HX800 amps ?

$579 each.

emailtim

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #3 on: 22 Feb 2018, 11:00 pm »
Thanks much CaptainHemo and Danny for the quick responses.

FWIW, my mains are 79" tall.

P.S.  I see I dropped a word in my line array question.  I thought separating them might be [more "room" dependent] or excite more of the room.

Danny Richie

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Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #4 on: 22 Feb 2018, 11:13 pm »
Thanks much CaptainHemo and Danny for the quick responses.

FWIW, my mains are 79" tall.

P.S.  I see I dropped a word in my line array question.  I thought separating them might be [more "room" dependent] or excite more of the room.

Spreading the subs out tends to even out the room loading.

emailtim

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #5 on: 28 Feb 2018, 07:46 am »
Another question about the HX800XLR3 amp.  If it contains 2 Hypex Amps and can drive 6 x 12" speakers (3 drivers/amp), can this amp run in stereo mode or is it still just mono (that combines both channels) ? 

Can the HX800 support dual 3 x 12's in stereo mode and single 6 x 12's in mono mode ?

Looking to work my way up the food chain in an incremental way.  I already have a 370 and before getting another one, I would like to know what incremental configuration options there are for adding more 12" drivers.

TIA

HAL

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Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #6 on: 28 Feb 2018, 02:54 pm »
The HX800 only has a mono input, either XLR or RCA.  The Hypex module inputs are tied together.

Captainhemo

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #7 on: 28 Feb 2018, 05:14 pm »
You  can disconnect the slave  module /amp internally to only  pwer  2 or 3 drivers until   you  add more.  If you  don't use the  2nd set of driver/servo  leads without disconnecting the  slave module, the amp will detect a connection error and   won't power on  youi'll et an error code.
So for example, you  could buy 2 HX800's and   run a set of triples off each until you   converted the stacks to quads or  6's.   If you are considering  tho 6's at some point , be sure to buy the SW12 16FR's

jay

emailtim

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #8 on: 28 Feb 2018, 06:41 pm »
You  can disconnect the slave  module /amp internally to only  pwer  2 or 3 drivers until   you  add more.  If you  don't use the  2nd set of driver/servo  leads without disconnecting the  slave module, the amp will detect a connection error and   won't power on  youi'll et an error code.
So for example, you  could buy 2 HX800's and   run a set of triples off each until you   converted the stacks to quads or  6's.   If you are considering  tho 6's at some point , be sure to buy the SW12 16FR's

jay

Hi Jay,

Thanks for the response, but I wanted to know if 1 HX800 could run dual [1-2-3]x12's in stereo mode until one determined the need to go to dual [4-5-6]x12's in stereo (e.g. buy 1 amp for up to the first 6 drivers and later add the second amp for up to the next 6 drivers) for scalability reasons. 

The 370 only does mono [1-2-3]x12's, no stereo options.

The HX800 only has a mono input, either XLR or RCA.  The Hypex module inputs are tied together.

HAL, thanks for the answer.  Not the one I was hoping for, but what I figured would be the case. 

Maybe this would be a new product idea for Brian and Danny to help people work their way into the higher driver numbers over time ???

TIA

Danny Richie

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Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #9 on: 28 Feb 2018, 07:15 pm »
No, the HX800 is still a mono amp.

The problem with a stereo amp is that the customer would want to put one on each side of the room. For the servo control system to work properly each amp needs to be located with each set of drivers. Long speaker leads cause a delay in control and performance starts falling off.

Captainhemo

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #10 on: 1 Mar 2018, 12:44 am »
Hi Jay,

Thanks for the response, but I wanted to know if 1 HX800 could run dual [1-2-3]x12's in stereo mode until one determined the need to go to dual [4-5-6]x12's in stereo (e.g. buy 1 amp for up to the first 6 drivers and later add the second amp for up to the next 6 drivers) for scalability reasons. 

The 370 only does mono [1-2-3]x12's, no stereo options.

HAL, thanks for the answer.  Not the one I was hoping for, but what I figured would be the case. 

Maybe this would be a new product idea for Brian and Danny to help people work their way into the higher driver numbers over time ???

TIA

HAL  had already answered it above my post  which was  why I didn't address  it and istead offered another  posible option although it   does include buying a pair of  HX800's.

Don has done  exactly what  I mentioned, he is using  a pair of HX800's, each controlled a  triple stack right now that will soon become  quads or 6's..   Once  you've the 800's, you can  pretty much  do any  config you want

It only hurts once   :thumb:

jay

emailtim

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #11 on: 1 Mar 2018, 02:41 am »
HAL  had already answered it above my post  which was  why I didn't address  it and istead offered another  posible option although it   does include buying a pair of  HX800's.
...

I didn't see Hal's response until later.  I appreciate the information.

...
It only hurts once   :thumb:
...

Not true, it hurts every time something new comes along =).  The pile gets deeper and deeper over time.

mlundy57

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #12 on: 1 Mar 2018, 04:17 am »
Not true, it hurts every time something new comes along =).  The pile gets deeper and deeper over time.

Ain't that the truth.  :lol:

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #13 on: 1 Mar 2018, 05:29 am »
I didn't see Hal's response until later.  I appreciate the information.

Not true, it hurts every time something new comes along =).  The pile gets deeper and deeper over time.

ahhh, but here'the kicker.... nothing new/better is coming along .  I;'ve ad the OB servo bass for a   few years now,  not feeling any need to  make changes, it's amazing.
Go with these ,  you're done .... PERIOD  :beer:

jay

gregfisk

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Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #14 on: 1 Mar 2018, 06:36 am »
ahhh, but here'the kicker.... nothing new/better is coming along .  I;'ve ad the OB servo bass for a   few years now,  not feeling any need to  make changes, it's amazing.
Go with these ,  you're done .... PERIOD  :beer:

jay

I completely agree, the best bass I have ever heard and I only have 4 subs.

Tyson

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #15 on: 1 Mar 2018, 06:49 am »
I completely agree, the best bass I have ever heard and I only have 4 subs.

Yep, I agree.  Look, 3 audiophiles agree, so you KNOW it's true :P

MarvinTheMartian

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Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #16 on: 1 Mar 2018, 11:49 am »
ahhh, but here'the kicker.... nothing new/better is coming along .  I;'ve ad the OB servo bass for a   few years now,  not feeling any need to  make changes, it's amazing.
Go with these ,  you're done .... PERIOD  :beer:

jay

Never say never...
I am pretty sure Mr.Rythmik has 15" & 18" paper cone OB prototype samples,
but no avsforum comments from him on the performance or any availability yet.
Poke. poke : )
Shawn

Danny Richie

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Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #17 on: 1 Mar 2018, 04:02 pm »
Never say never...
I am pretty sure Mr.Rythmik has 15" & 18" paper cone OB prototype samples,
but no avsforum comments from him on the performance or any availability yet.
Poke. poke : )
Shawn

I had some 15" paper cone based drivers made for OB use. But they didn't play any lower, or perform any better. They just had more moving mass so they were not as fast.

Captainhemo

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #18 on: 1 Mar 2018, 04:55 pm »
Never say never...
I am pretty sure Mr.Rythmik has 15" & 18" paper cone OB prototype samples,
but no avsforum comments from him on the performance or any availability yet.
Poke. poke : )
Shawn

I  can't see the larger woofers interesting me... the  12's are  incredibly fast and already play  flat to 20hz and even down into the teens.  to me, going larger   may actually  degrade the quality, with more moving mass and larger  cabinets  prone to more resonence.

jay

 see Danny's post above  LOL

Tyson

Re: Couple of Questions @ H-Frames
« Reply #19 on: 1 Mar 2018, 05:07 pm »
Never say never...
I am pretty sure Mr.Rythmik has 15" & 18" paper cone OB prototype samples,
but no avsforum comments from him on the performance or any availability yet.
Poke. poke : )
Shawn

Why would you even care about 15 inch woofers?  The 12s already go down to 20hz, with power.  And quality?  No box sub I've heard can touch them.  And I've owned/built/heard some insanely good box subs, up to and including several Infinite Baffle ones.