M Force Bass System

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Birdbrain

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M Force Bass System
« on: 14 Feb 2018, 01:46 am »
http://www.spatialaudio.us/m-force-bass
Clayton, please tell us more about the new M Force. Is this two of the lower 15"ers from the M3 in an M3 frame? Inquiring minds want to know!

harley.guy07

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #1 on: 14 Feb 2018, 04:59 am »
I have been a happy owner of the M3 Turbo S models and i have also built my own sealed sub to use with them that is powered by a pro sound amp with great results but this has me interested. I am a little surprised that this looks just like my speakers without the compression driver so far. I am interested in seeing what you have done with this model that might compel me to change from a sealed sub to a open baffle low end.

FullRangeMan

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #2 on: 14 Feb 2018, 05:43 am »
Interesting subs to use with fullrange single drivers,
the $1295 price is per pair?

zybar

Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #3 on: 14 Feb 2018, 11:42 pm »
Interesting subs to use with fullrange single drivers,
the $1295 price is per pair?

I am guessing that isn’t a per price, but would be happy to be wrong.

George

WC

Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #4 on: 15 Feb 2018, 02:19 am »
Seems like a per unit price. Includes the amp  for the bass unit. Competition with the GR-research OB servo subs.

Folsom

Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #5 on: 15 Feb 2018, 05:21 am »
Sure looks per to me. Seems perfectly reasonable.

It's not really competition for a DIY setup (even if the DIY is as good or better). There aren't a ton of crossover folks between DIY and commercial.

Spatial Audio

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #6 on: 15 Feb 2018, 06:28 pm »
Sure looks per to me. Seems perfectly reasonable.

It's not really competition for a DIY setup (even if the DIY is as good or better). There aren't a ton of crossover folks between DIY and commercial.

Hi Folsom,

Yes, you are correct. The best performing sub on the market is Danny's DIY Servo OB system. We use it as part of our $20K Lumina speaker. A commercial version of the Servo sub would sell for many times the cost of the M-Force, which is the whole point of this product.

By leveraging the M3 chassis, which is produced in high volume, we have a practical platform by which to build a great sounding woofer system at low cost. I am not trying to plum the lowest depths or provide pounding bass with the M-Force design, but rather provide a real improvement to the music experience in two channel music systems. Quality of bass if the name the game here.

We found through testing in 2008, that literally more OB woofers is always better. A 16 x 15" Eminence woofer test in 10ft x 11ft room convinced me that it just gets better. The sound of the entire speaker improves, including soundstaging. So, It is kind of counterintuitive if your only experience is with box subwoofers. Articulation and pitch accuracy, plus great instrument separation. You can clearly hear both the stand up bass and piano individually. Adding one or more M-Force units to a pair of M3s is a revelation and not expensive to do at $1295 each. Adding a single M-Force to M4s creates a full range speaker. With Maggies - oh yeah! Dipole is the only way to go for natural sounding bass. We have a 60 day return policy on the M-Force.


Clayton
www.spatialaudio.us



glynnw

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #7 on: 15 Feb 2018, 07:26 pm »
This makes me feel great about my having a pair of Danny's dual 12" servo OB subs with my M3 Triode Masters.  I can testify that as good as the M3 is, it's bass is better when augmented by good subs.

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #8 on: 15 Feb 2018, 11:59 pm »
...A 16 x 15" Eminence woofer test in 10ft x 11ft room...

Is this a typo?  Was this two stacks of 4, side by side, per side or were the ceilings somehow crazy tall enough to do one stack of 8 drivers per side?  In a room that size, it almost sounds like you all but built an infinite baffle "wall" of OB driver panels and had to be sitting in a very near field setup to get the drivers far enough from the front walls to make the OB thing work?

I mean, I'm all for "no replacement for displacement", but I'm having a hard time picturing this size/scale of setup in a room this small, unless you really just threw it together for testing purposes?

JazzGMster

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #9 on: 12 Apr 2018, 05:55 pm »
Does anyone have any experience adding a couple of these to an M3 TS stereo setup?  I wouldn't mind having more weight to the bottom end and I have the space.  Any issues with connecting these to a Class D amp? 

thanks

Manolo

Re: Implementation data
« Reply #10 on: 22 Apr 2018, 02:42 pm »
It would  be nice to know more about how the unit can be set, like suggested crossover frequencies and slopes for either mono or stereo options and if the main speakers would be left full range or crossed over a a certain frequency like 80 or 100 hz, etc... And some listening impressions. Maybe someone has done this already or Clayton can give us an update on this.

Wind Chaser

Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #11 on: 22 Apr 2018, 02:48 pm »
I wouldn't mind having more weight to the bottom end and I have the space.

What is powering your M3ts?

JazzGMster

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #12 on: 23 Apr 2018, 01:55 am »
What is powering your M3ts?

Cherry Maraschino STM

Wind Chaser

Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #13 on: 23 Apr 2018, 05:38 pm »
Okay, we've pretty much have the same amps and speakers. I'm using the Maraschino 48V DTMs, so we're pretty much on the same page.

A couple of thoughts...

First, if you don't mind my asking, what speakers were you using prior to the M3ts? Open baffle bass is quite unlike "boxed" bass. Unlike boxed speakers which generate "bass in a box", open baffles generate bass in the room without the help handicap of a box. To the discriminating ear, hertz for hertz the quality and character of this bass is not merely different, but arguably superior to bass made in a box...

Second, fresh out the box, these speakers really benefit from being hit hard with a lot of power combined with bass heavy music for a few hundred hours. Some people pussyfoot around this issue thinking they can break them in at moderate volumes with any kind of music over time. That's not gonna happen; those two big 15" drivers need a long hard rigorous work out before the bass truly forms. When it does, the before and after difference is night and day, with the right amp the bass impact is nothing short of stunning. So the question is, are your speakers really broken in?

Third, your Class D amp is far more qualified to deal with the Spatial load than any tube amp on the planet, especially when it comes to bottom end impact! Some M3ts owners are thrilled with the sound of their SET amp, but when they switch to Class D they are totally thunderstruck at how much better their speakers sound. Your Cherry amp is very special in that regard. There are some other SS designs that will give you a lot of bottom end grunt, but they won't have the neutrality and finesse in the midrange and upper end.


Spatial Audio

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Re: Implementation data
« Reply #14 on: 23 Apr 2018, 08:20 pm »
It would  be nice to know more about how the unit can be set, like suggested crossover frequencies and slopes for either mono or stereo options and if the main speakers would be left full range or crossed over a a certain frequency like 80 or 100 hz, etc... And some listening impressions. Maybe someone has done this already or Clayton can give us an update on this.

The M-Force woofer is priced per unit and includes the outboard amp. So, the signal is mixed to mono. Crossover point, phase and level can be adjusted. Used to augment the M3s, I would set the crossover around 50 to 60 Hz. The woofers are from the M3. By doubling the surface area of the OB drivers and being able to control bass level, a good improvement can be had at a moderate price - particularly in larger rooms.

Clayton

Arpagon

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #15 on: 2 May 2018, 01:41 am »
Hi everybody. I'm very much intrigued by the Spatial speakers.  Impossible for me to listen to them somewhere my home. Anyway; my question about this Bass system in particular would be: where the hell should you place it in the room ?  Between the two main speakers ?

JazzGMster

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Re: M Force Bass System
« Reply #16 on: 2 May 2018, 08:37 pm »
Okay, we've pretty much have the same amps and speakers. I'm using the Maraschino 48V DTMs, so we're pretty much on the same page.

A couple of thoughts...

First, if you don't mind my asking, what speakers were you using prior to the M3ts? Open baffle bass is quite unlike "boxed" bass. Unlike boxed speakers which generate "bass in a box", open baffles generate bass in the room without the help handicap of a box. To the discriminating ear, hertz for hertz the quality and character of this bass is not merely different, but arguably superior to bass made in a box...

Second, fresh out the box, these speakers really benefit from being hit hard with a lot of power combined with bass heavy music for a few hundred hours. Some people pussyfoot around this issue thinking they can break them in at moderate volumes with any kind of music over time. That's not gonna happen; those two big 15" drivers need a long hard rigorous work out before the bass truly forms. When it does, the before and after difference is night and day, with the right amp the bass impact is nothing short of stunning. So the question is, are your speakers really broken in?

Third, your Class D amp is far more qualified to deal with the Spatial load than any tube amp on the planet, especially when it comes to bottom end impact! Some M3ts owners are thrilled with the sound of their SET amp, but when they switch to Class D they are totally thunderstruck at how much better their speakers sound. Your Cherry amp is very special in that regard. There are some other SS designs that will give you a lot of bottom end grunt, but they won't have the neutrality and finesse in the midrange and upper end.

Thanks so much for the detailed response!
I guess overall I should state that I'm not pining for bass or suggesting the speakers sound in any way dreadful or seriously lacking.  As an audio nut going back decades, I would say that I've been toying with the idea of what some additional bass presence would do but on the whole, I can't ever recall being more satisfied with a pair of speakers (and I've had and enjoyed quite a few, from big Maggies to Evolution Acoustics Micro Ones and a whole bunch of monkey coffins).  These are my first OBs so it has been a bit of an education for me but what I think I like best is the lack of compromise: I guess the openness and scale (if not the height) of planars but the dynamic kick in the chest of certain boxes. 

My last speakers before these are not really indicative in the sense that it was a normal upgrade path.  I'm in a temporary living situation so I chose some KEF LS-50's to bring with me to this house as I wasn't sure what the room and acoustics would be like.  It is a great little speaker but absurd to compare it to the Spatials (and it certainly had much less bass and scale). 

On break in- possibly.  I actually bought these second hand but I suspect they weren't played hard or for too long as they were in pristine shape when they came to me.  What I suspect is playing a role in the modest amount of bass they produce, more than anything else, is the room.  While I know the M3s are less susceptible to room issues than box speakers and planars, my current room has a large stairway opening on one side of the room and I've found the bass response to vary quite a bit depending on where my seating position is, as a result.  So I've moved my listening chair about a foot forward and that really made a difference.  When I do move back to my other house after my job here ends- we'll have to see the result as that listening room is almost square with a lower ceiling but with better acoustical treatment. 

I guess mainly I was just wondering if anyone else had experimented with the M-Force as there are no reviews and I'm interested to see what somebody else's experience has been by augmenting their setup with one or two.  More of a curiosity than a driving need on my part. 

Oh and I love the STM.  I had a very nice Musical Fidelity class A/B amp before this one and there are just so many more little details in the music with the class D, not to mention the authority with which it drives the M3s.  For the price, it's a no-brainer (IMHO).   

Thanks again for the response.  Really enjoy reading your posts.