Subversive DIY Speaker Cable

Dan Banquer · « **on:** 6 Mar 2003, 09:11 pm »

There is a subversive DIY speaker cable article up now on www.audioholics.com. This is not for the faint at heart. Pimp Daddy wannabee's; be forewarned: RATED XXX

audioengr · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 06:37 pm »

I don't get it.

You don't actually use such a cable for music yourself do you?

Hantra · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 07:12 pm »

THANK GOODNESS!

I am glad I am not the only one who isn't smart enough to get that one. .

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 07:42 pm »

In actuality I don't use those cables, I use a Belden 8718, which is just a twisted pair with a shield that I hook to the amp chassis. The only reason I use the 8718 as opposed to the 12 AWG zip is I am lucky enough to live about 60 yards from a ham radio operator, and his 100 watt transmitter.

In fact: I think the only book on wire any audiophile really needs is a Belden Master Catalog.

Carlman · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 09:52 pm »

I'm using Canare 4S8 speaker cable. I found in my system they sound better than Kimber 4TC and Audio Magic Extreme. When I add some Cardas spades, the 10' pair will have cost me ~$35 with shipping. (Kimber 4TC is over $200 and has the PM spades)

Unfortunately, the Canare iC's I bought aren't even in the same league as Kimber PBJ. The sound got muddy, flat, dark, and less detailed when I added the IC's. They sounded like Audioquest Copperheads I used to own.

My point is that I know cables make a difference but, some stuff is really cheap and sounds awesome. I hope this is the point Dan is trying to make. With price not an option, the Canare (speaker cable) has beaten the other 2 cables I've tried in my system. It'll be interesting to see if a new amp makes my speaker cables more important.

However, if the intent is to slap people in the face with a minimalistic approach, that's cool.... but, if the post is for no other reason than to do so, who cares?

-Carl

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 10:01 pm »

Carlman:
I have an interesting sense of humor. The thought that someone could say "you don't use such cable for music yourself, do you?" tends to bring out the side of me that is ready to do flame wars with people who are having delusions of something ( I'm not sure what). There's a little Nathan in all of us.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 10:07 pm »

Are you serious?

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 10:55 pm »

Let's examine the quote " you don't use such cable for music yourself, do you" This implies that I am using something inferior and that someone like myself is supposed to be " above" that. A similar analogy would be " you don't drive that 96 Saturn Wagon for your main transportation do you?" This is the physcology of "high end" marketing. Let's make you feel inferior if you don't use brand X. I'm old enough to remember the Rolling Stones tune, I can't get no staisfaction. Part of the lyrics said the following. "you can't be a man if he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me" Am I getting across here? To quote you " high is what you are, not what you buy"
I really despise this type of marketing.

DVV · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

There is a subversive DIY speaker cable article up now on www.audioholics.com. This is not for the faint at heart. Pimp Daddy wannabee's; be forewarned: RATED XXX

Er, um ..? I must be really thick, but I don't see what's subversive about it?

Although, reading the replies ... Dan, is Salem anywhere near you?

Cheers,
DVV

nathanm · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 11:25 pm »

Dan, so what does the HAM radio guy talk about, or should I say talked about before you took shielding precautions in your system?

One time I heard my friend's mysterious, ghost-like voices broadcasting through my stereo system, but they were in the driveway using a CB radio! Heh! Otherwise no RFI issues since then.

Personally I thought it was an excellent article for the beginner. Good pictures too. The hand model could've used a bit of a manicure though, or at least some digital retouching. Dry cuticles...for shame!

I do wonder though, how can you possibly listen to music with that...that, umm copper wire surrounded by insulation? I mean, it's like just, uh, stranded copper and stuff...you are a fancy amp designer I thought, why aren't you using $300/M stranded copper in insulation? Geez man, you aren't very smart are ya? I mean, that stuff doesn't actually WORK does it? That's not real wire in there is it? It's like rubber hose sprayed with gold paint isn't it? Ha ha, funny joke, but come on Dan, fess up now!

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 11:32 pm »

Nothing like a dry New England winter to do a number on your hands, and your back if your my age. Yes I have used the cable shown in the article, and yes I would still be using it if it wasn't for the ham radio operator 60 yards from me.

nathanm · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Mar 2003, 11:32 pm »

Quote from: audioengr

You don't actually use such a cable for music yourself do you?----Don't judge a cable by its cover or its price

You just did BOTH dude! I'd suggest considering how one's post should ideally follow the advice given in one's signature file, but hell if audioengr did that then I wouldn't be

!!! And then where's the fun?

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Mar 2003, 12:28 am »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

Let's examine the quote " you don't use such cable for music yourself, do you" This implies that I am using something inferior and that someone like myself is supposed to be " above" that. A similar analogy would be " you don't drive that 96 Saturn Wagon for your main transportation do you?" This is the physcology of "high end" marketing. Let's make you feel inferior if you don't use brand X. I'm old enough to remember the Rolling Stones tune, I can't get no staisfaction. Part of the lyrics said the following. "you can't be a man if he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me" Am I getting across here? To quote you " high is what you are, not what you buy"
I really despise this type of marketing.

I'll make this very clear:

In my particular situation, I use 65 cents/ft speaker wire. However, it is 12 ga multistranded & twisted configuration, , silver plated copper, Teflon insulated and sheathed.

A friend of mine tried some and put up for sale his Kimber 8TC. Another friend is using two-5 feet sections of Pure Note Epsilon ($1,100.00), tried my cheapo's and sent them wires for cryo treatment and cable cooking. If they don't outperform the Pure Notes they will be UNCOMFORTABLY close...

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Mar 2003, 02:01 am »

Hi Dejan;
Glad you can join the fun here, and yes I live about a mile from Salem Massachusetts. We don't burn witches anymore though.

Psychicanimal: at 65 cents a foot I would be very surprised if the wire was silver plated, ( I could well be wrong) my bet is that it's tinned from solder.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Mar 2003, 04:46 am »

I is silver plated--what happened was that it turned out to be not true 12 ga, but a little thinner. The batch was discarded due to QA reasons and sold through the surplus market.

DVV · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Mar 2003, 07:26 am »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

Hi Dejan;
Glad you can join the fun here, and yes I live about a mile from Salem Massachusetts. We don't burn witches anymore though.
....

I never thought you did, Dan, but you seem interested in evoking some historic memories by saying things not easily accepted, and being a thorough man that you are, I though you might be pushing for the whole thing, to the hilt. It gets very hot in the grand finale.

But the type of wire shown on the pictures is well known to me, I installed something very much along those lines in many a system - usually replacing telephone cables, or some such sheer lunacy that was there. I always went for the max, which is 5.5 mm cross section, 512 strands per side. You can imagine the difference between a cable capable of passing impulses of around 2-300 amperes and that ol' telephone wire. Price was, if memory serves, like $4, maybe $5 per metre (1 metre = 3.3 feet).

And I'd love to learn what happens when you cryo that cable, like Francisco did.

For the record, I am currently using van den Hul Hybrid 352. This cost me a total of $100 for two 6 metre runs (2x 20 ft), necessitated by the architecture of my room. It also has a 5.5 mm cross section, and uses silver plated OFC copper mixed with carbon fibres, in what they call Hulliflex outside cover.

When I find a better sounding cable which does not cost from 10 times and upwards of what this one did, I'll buy it.

Cheers,
DVV

audioengr · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Mar 2003, 05:45 pm »

Quote

In actuality I don't use those cables, I use a Belden 8718, which is just a twisted pair with a shield that I hook to the amp chassis. The only reason I use the 8718 as opposed to the 12 AWG zip is I am lucky enough to live about 60 yards from a ham radio operator, and his 100 watt transmitter.

I'm relieved, sort of. It is always difficult to convince non-believers because the only way is to actually hear it for yourself. The number of systems where I have heard the difference in cables myself I can count on one hand..... so this is not by chance - you have to listen on the RIGHT system, not in typical stereo stores...not even close...

Quote

In fact: I think the only book on wire any audiophile really needs is a Belden Master Catalog.

It's true, you can build some really nice speaker cable from Belden wire, but not with their instructions.... Also, it's about the electricals (inductance, resistance, capacitance, dielectric absorption) and it's about metallurgy. Belden fails the metallurgy test.

Some of my customers have the sound now and they cannot believe it was possible. You should talk to them, but again, you really have to hear it for yourself.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Mar 2003, 08:27 pm »

Mr. Audio Engineer: Any time you would like to address Nathan's post on " Don't judge a cable by it's cover or it's price" I'm sure Nathan and myself would be very interested.
In addition I would be very interested if you have any real data on some of the mettalurgy claims you seem to be making.
Please note an earlier post that I made where I said I would still be using the 12 AWG zip cord if I didn't have a ham radio operator with a 100 watt transmitter 60 yards from me.

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Mar 2003, 09:32 pm »

This is going to turn into a circus!!!

DVV · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Mar 2003, 08:26 am »

Quote from: Psychicanimal

This is going to turn into a circus!!!

No, why?

I think it's time we said a few things about cables, especially since most of us here have experimented with them at one time or another.

Cheers,
DVV