[WerTicus]

http://www.somethingawful.com/

written in reponse to their law suits i believe.

Its the top 'news' article on this interesting site... currently.

[nathanm]

You cannot be granted a right.


Also, I think AC should be renamed MonsterCircle.com!

[ctviggen]

You sure that people aren't granted rights?  Here are amendments to the US Constitution:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the RIGHT of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the RIGHT of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

There are more Amendments that list rights.  I assume these rights are granted to people?[/i]

[brj]

You sure that people aren't granted rights?

From the U.S. government viewpoint, certain rights are intrinsic to the human condition.  You are assumed to have a right unless it is specifically restricted by a law.  The language is written to ensure that these inherent rights are not infringed upon by the passing of future laws.  By definition, laws can only remove or limit freedoms, not grant them.  (Again, from the U.S. standpoint.)

From the U.S. Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

[nathanm]

Yes, I am sure.   A right is inherent, you are born with it.  Only priveleges can be granted to you.  A right is anything you can do without having to ask for permission.  When there is no higher authority to go to.  The Bill of Rights enumerates\lists\declares some of these rights, it does not give you anything you didn't have before.  They are listed there to make sure the government knows what they are.

[nhtran]

You cannot be granted a right.


Also, I think AC should be renamed MonsterCircle.com!

I beg to differ.  

For example, a license (as used in the intellectual property context) is a RIGHT to use the property.  And that can be granted.

[CSMR]

If you are born in a country where a government doesn't let you do anything, then you obviously have no rights.

[CSMR]

From the U.S. government viewpoint...
From the U.S. Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...

Is the US government bound to uphold the Declaration of Independence? If it were to uphold the philosophical opinions of this document, would this not be an establishment of religion?

[nathanm]

I beg to differ.  For example, a license (as used in the intellectual property context) is a RIGHT to use the property.  And that can be granted.

We're talking about individual, natural human rights, though.  Those are inalienable whereas a software license is more accurately granting you a privelege to use the software, but you don't own it.  This stuff can easily get a bit muddled up in semantics, but anyway the article in question was referencing the US Constitution which deals with the rights of People.

If you are born in a country where a government doesn't let you do anything, then you obviously have no rights.

An oppressive government does not eliminate rights, it merely violates them.  The rights themselves are still extant.  For example everyone has a right to party, and sometimes we must fight for it.  I suppose if a person truly THINKS they have no rights and is content to let other people control them utterly...then yeah, they have no rights.  I doubt many people truly believe this, though.

Is the US government bound to uphold the Declaration of Independence?

Well, it's a declaration.  It's kind of a "Fuck You" letter to the King of Britain!  So in that case yes, the government has upheld it.  The US is no longer subject to any king, correct?  We made our own country and government separate from them.

If it were to uphold the philosophical opinions of this document, would this not be an establishment of religion?

Nope.  The Declaration of Independence says nothing about establishing any national religion.  It DOES establish Monster Cables as the finest manufacturer of single ended interconnects.  That much is clear!

[Carlman]

THanks for a TRULY hilarious read.  It's a bit more cynical than my other lunchtime read, the Onion... but wow... they really hit the nail on the head.

I especially liked the graphics.  I think this one says it all:

[brj]

From the U.S. government viewpoint...
From the U.S. Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...

Is the US government bound to uphold the Declaration of Independence? If it were to uphold the philosophical opinions of this document, would this not be an establishment of religion?

I used it as an example because it shows some of the thinking of the U.S. "founding fathers" on that particular topic and because it is relatively well known.  Is it upheld?  Yes, the U.S. is a separate country independent of the U.K., and expressing that sentiment was the purpose of the  Declaration of Independence.  The Constitution, however, is the document that lays down the primary organization and scope of the U.S. government.

At this point, I will leave that particular topic alone because:

a) I don't want to side-track the original topic, and
b) we are veering dangerously close to a discussion on both politics and religion.  Discussions on both topics are strongly discouraged on AudioCircle in the general circles, if not out-right forbidden (I don't remember the current state of the FAQ at the moment).

(That isn't to say that the conversation isn't worth having, just not in this forum.  Even with the best of intentions, those particular topics tend to get heated fairly quickly, and we get ourselves into enough heated discussions when limiting our focus to audio gear alone! )

We now return you to your regularly scheduled ridicule of Monster Cable's legal department!