JVC RX-F10 and Powered Subs

Horizons · « **on:** 14 Dec 2004, 01:48 am »

I should be taking delivery this week on my JVC RX-F10. I will be running the output of my DAC to the DVD/multi inputs as per the recommendations here. The unit will be attempting to drive my Maggie 1.6QRs. Should be interesting.

I also have a 12-inch Parts Express Titanic sub that has a plate amp/xover that accepts both high and low level inputs. I have read here that I will not get a low level sub out signal while using the stereo DVD/multi inputs of the JVC. Can I run speaker set B to the high level xover inputs of my sub? I actually think this sub sounds better with high level, speaker inputs and I know it doesn't place much of a load on the amp in the process.

Thanks for any help here.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 02:00 am »

If you are running a stereo signal into the 2 front channels of the DVD/Multi input, I don't think you can use a sub.

At least, with the ES-1, I could not. Maybe with the B channel outputs, the ES-1 does not have any extra speaker cables, just the usual HT 5, and the coax sub out.

Good luck,

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 02:53 am »

Hold your horses!

If you only have a 2 channel rig, just hook up to the dvd multi inputs and select plain ol' DVD, not dvd multi. Then your sub will work just fine. You can use the inputs, just not the dvd multi mode. What the F10 does have access to is a midnight mode which reportedly sounds just about as good as the dvd multi mode. IMO the difference between dvd and dvd multi is slight and questionable in the first place. I think I hear it but it's one of those deals like with cables. I think I hear it but it could easily be in my head.

gary · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 03:49 am »

Horizons-

What I'd do is run the analog signal from your DAC into the L/R main DVD input, and then the other analog signal from your player into the sub or Rear jacks. Then the output can get sent to your sub, and things will be good. Except volume matching of course, which might be the sticking point.

Quote from: ooheadsoo

IMO the difference between dvd and dvd multi is slight and questionable in the first place. I think I hear it but it's one of those deals like with cables. I think I hear it but it could easily be in my head.

Gotta disagree with you there. With my $400 Philips DVD player there's not a huge difference but IMO with a quality analog source the difference is night & day. That's the case with my P1-A & P3-A, which, granted, cost many times what the amp or dvd player did. And with my turntable anyone with ears could absolutely hear the difference between DVD/Multi and DVD... all the warmth and magic of the vinyl sound instantly disappears when you switch away from Multi.

Gary

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 04:09 am »

Gary, have you tried the midnight setting on your f10 in dvd mode? Any thoughts?

gary · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 02:18 pm »

No, haven't tried that. If it works it'd be absolutely awesome for me, as I wouldn't have to manually swap interconnects for CD, vinyl & SACD. I will tonight though, and I'll let you know what I think.

Gary

geneylim · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 04:41 pm »

Horizons, there is a significant difference in sound quality between the multi channel in and dvd in. If using for two channel only, you would probably be better served using the speaker level inputs to signal your sub rather than using the sub out on the receiver and having to use the dvd input. You would gain the sound quality of the multi-channel in, and as a matter of fact, that's how REL recommends their subs being installed. Every time that I have hooked up my subs in this manner, I've had extremely successful results with much better sub integration with the mains. The sub's bass actually takes on the characteristics of the power amplifier making it blend seemlessly.

Horizons · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 06:33 pm »

Quote from: geneylim

Horizons, there is a significant difference in sound quality between the multi channel in and dvd in.

I'm sorry but I am still confused. I downloaded a pdf of the F10 User Guide and there is a L+R DVR/DVD audio in, but the multi-input RCA jacks are for SUB, CENTER, SURR LEFT, SURR RIGHT.

I assume you mean connect to the DVR/DVD inputs and select multi in the setup menu?

Thanks!

KCHANG · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 07:38 pm »

Horizons,

Before you connect the speaker level outputs of the JVC to the speaker-level inputs of the plate amp of your sub, check whether the black (negative) speaker terminals of the JVC are actually connected to the ground. As I recall, the negative speaker terminals of the Panasoic receivers are not at the ground level, i.e., the voltages on the negative terminals change with the music, and I suspect that those of the JVC are the same. I am at work, but I'll check my JVC F10 when I get home to see whether that is the case. If so, connecting the negative terminals of the JVC to the speaker level inputs of the plate amp may short the outputs on the L and R negative terminals of the JVC togather, causing the JVC to shut down and potentially causing damages to the output circuit.

Kurt

geneylim · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Dec 2004, 08:57 pm »

Horizons, correct...the JVC does not have seperate inputs for the front channels of the multi channel in. Just select multi channel from your remote. When in multi channel mode the JVC bypasses bass management and tone controls for a "direct" mode, thus sounding better. I currently have my subwoofer connected through speaker level inputs without any problems, in fact it sounds better than through the sub out.

Gene

Horizons · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Dec 2004, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: geneylim

Horizons, correct...the JVC does not have seperate inputs for the front channels of the multi channel in. Just select multi channel from your remote. When in multi channel mode the JVC bypasses bass management and tone controls for a "direct" mode, thus sounding better. I currently have my subwoofer connected through speaker level inputs without any problems, in fact it sounds better than through the sub out.

Gene

Thanks for the clarification on this. I will post after I get everything hooked up this weekend. Your responses will make setup and troubleshooting a lot less painful.

KCHANG · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Dec 2004, 11:37 pm »

Hi Horizons,

I've checked my JVC F10, and indeed the negative speaker output terminals are not tied to the ground. Interestingly, I also checked my PartsExpress plate amp, and the negative (black) speaker-level input terminals are not directly tied to the ground but instead have a finite resistance (~1Kohm) to the ground. Perhaps that's why someone was able to connect the outputs of the JVC F10 to the speaker level inputs of a sub plate amp without shutting down the JVC. I guess the maker of the plate amp anticipated that some people will try to connect balanced amp outputs to the speaker-level inputs and designed the input circuitry to cope with that.

Kurt

Horizons · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Dec 2004, 12:25 am »

Quote from: KCHANG

Hi Horizons,

I've checked my JVC F10, and indeed the negative speaker output terminals are not tied to the ground. Interestingly, I also checked my PartsExpress plate amp, and the negative (black) speaker-level input terminals are not directly tied to the ground but instead have a finite resistance (~1Kohm) to the ground. Perhaps that's why someone was able to connect the outputs of the JVC F10 to the speaker level inputs of a sub plate amp without shutting down the JVC. I guess the maker of the pla ...

Thanks Kurt. I figured worse-case, the JVC would just shutdown. I'm sure it has plenty of protection circuitry.

Any ideas on how well it might drive a pair of 4 ohm speakers and a sub amp? I'm assuming the load from the speaker level sub amp inputs is very minor.

KCHANG · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Dec 2004, 03:43 pm »

Hi Horizons,

The sub amp speaker level input presents a load that is negligible comared to the load of the speaker. I don't know how well the JVC drives 4ohm speakers, since I don't have speakers with a 4ohm nominal impedance.

Kurt

tex-amp · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Dec 2004, 04:14 am »

Now, I'm looking to add a sub with x-mas money. Am I understanding correctly that for strictly 2 channel(2.1) I need to wire thru the sub and use the sub's crossover? And not to use the LFE?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Dec 2004, 11:47 am »

tex-amp,

You don't mention your source components, but if you have a DVD/CD player of recent vintage (and good quality) you can run IC's from each main channel and sub (2.1) from the discrete analog outputs of your DVD to the appropriate inputs in the JVC. You would then use the 'DVD Multi' setting....which JVC itself says gives the best overall quality of listening. You can use the LFE within the JVC once set up this way.

You can also use LFE if you run a digital coax or optical connection to the JVC....using DVD setting.....but the sonic results are dissapointing versus the discrete analog input route.

I use a two channel DAC so my options of using a sub are rather limited to using a high quality line level splitter from one of my DAC channel outputs and running into my dedicated amp for my passive sub. Bypassing the JVC internal LFE and using the subs crossover. My transport is a circa 1999 Sony DVD player that has no sub output....so I cannot use Gary's method of hookup (several posts up from this one in this thread)

I most often do without sub in my set-up...preferring the sonic purity of just 2 channel playback versus the slight degradation of the signal with a splitter involved. Less connections are most often better connnections

I have only a 12 x 15 x 8-12 ceiling' space to fill and don't play much loud orchestral or metal these days.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Dec 2004, 12:10 pm »

Horizons,

You've had your F10 over two weeks now..enough to burn in nicely? How do you find it mates to the Maggie 1.6QR?

I am finding a very good pairing with my MMG's...but they are an easier drive than the 1.6QR (in LFE alone, for instance) and I have not heard the MMG's paired with any other amplification device to compare it to. I'm kinda' happily stunned by the quality of the pairing actually.

The more limiting factor seems to be the quality of the MMG, rather than the amp. With each tweek done to the MMG, it responds more favorably and I am really enjoying the sound coming out of it the last 2 days

Let us know....-Richard- glowed in his review of the 1.6QR/F10 pairing a few months back.

tex-amp · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Dec 2004, 03:29 pm »

My CDP is an Audio Refinement Complete Alpha. The only outs are one analog pair and one digital coax. Can I use some Ys to split the signal? If I go that route am I going to be continuously adjusting sub volume to match speaker volume? That would suck!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Dec 2004, 05:49 pm »

tex-amp,

'Tis a sucky thing, but yes, you will have to continually adjust the volume of your sub to the music (unless your powered sub has remote...some do).

I tried the Monster Cable wire splitters...they are horrible. The best Y splitters I've found are the solid brass type, teflon lined (as opposed to delrin)....this one from ACI seems most inexpensive and worthy from spec (I did not hear it, however):

http://audioc.com/accessories1/misc/adapters.htm

You may want to ask ACI if it's teflon lined...I understand that the delrin (plastic) ones are inferior.

fabaudio · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Jul 2005, 08:22 pm »

I have zero experience with subwoofers. I'm currently having fun w / Omega TS 3's using my trusty JVC and Pioneer 578 serving double duty as 2 ch/ 5.1 HT. I hooked up a pair of Energy es 8 subwoofers via regular analog DVD inputs without any problems. My question - Is there any way in hell the subwoofers can be used w/ DVD multi which is of course sonically superior. I'd really appreciate any suggestions 'cause I have no patience with the JVC manual.Thanks.

Frank