[sfrounds]

Hello,
I have a pair of VMPS RM30M's. I have read all the articles I could find regarding the upgrade from an RM30M to a Seiers 2. I just received the four Misco 6" Megawoofers (LLC62W-8A) yesterday. I am ordering the 10UF capacitor I need for removing the side firing woofer. However, I need help to determine and purchase the correct 10" passives I will need to purchase. Thanks, Steve

[G E]

I ordered the 10" passives from John Casler. Drop him a note and he can point you the right direction.

BTW, there are several cabinet variations. If you have the side firing woofers, the passive should drop right into place. In my case I had to remove the rubber trim ring and it fit perfectly. I used a 3m product for sealing auto glass to form an airtight seal. And the grills fit right in place as well. I did an extensive write up of the project with lots of pix. It's a few pages up in the forum.

How long did it take to get the misco woofers?  I was on the fence but think I will move forward.

[sfrounds]

Thanks for your reply. I have the M series with the side firing woofers. I have reviewed your upgrade and pictures a few times. I believe I discovered that the passives that were pictured in your write up were Solen or CSS APR 10's. Solen is not showing them available, and CSS has been bought out, and getting a new web site. I was however able to shoot them an email.

I do not know John Casler or how to get in touch with him. Maybe you can help me with that...New to this site....Member search?

The 4 Misco drivers took exactly 6 weeks from the time of order to delivery. They were really expensive, custom parts had to be machined to custom build the four of them.

I was going to hold off on doing the upgrade but, a few days ago one of my side firing woofers started breaking up. Pulled it out and checked it full range and it is bad. I came to the conclusion after much searching that I am not going to find one. So, I am just going to do the series 2 upgrade if I can get my hands on a pair of passives.

Thanks

[G E]

I found my boxes and confirmed they are CSS APR 10.  Hopefully you can find a cople of them.

John Casler is well-known on these forums, you can search for him and shoot a PM to him.

Do you mind sharing who you ordered the woofers from and what they cost?  I feel like I need to do something pretty soon or they will become even more difficult to get.

fe

[sfrounds]

Of course I will share that information. Your head may fall off when you see the price. but here goes.

The contact is Dan Digre at Misco speakers. He is a perfect gentleman and always answers his emails promptly. The cost for the four of them was 780.00.  If interested, I would start with a phone call. They are used to making large quantities, and I almost think he was doing me a favor even at that price.

I figured I would still have the older drivers on hand.  And eventually, will find or have fixed my broken 10" driver so I have a complete set of drivers for whatever. I have also been trying to locate a neomid for a spare but no luck so far with that one.

I used to have a pair of RM30C's and have owned the RM40's as well. I just love the RM30's and it's all in getting the synergy just right. When you do, I have found nothing that I like better.

A new member to my VMPS system was a pair of PS Audio Stellar M700 mono block amps.  These amps are nothing short of astonishing. Wow!!

[G E]

Wow! That's more than double the price I was quoted from 18-24 months ago!

Really like my RM 30's but it took a major system overhaul to get there.

I had a Bryston 4bsst2 amp and it was not a good match. Everything sounded hard.

Now I have Bryston 28bsst-2 monoblocks and it is wonderful. Morrow level 6 ICs and speaker cables. Bel Canto Pre 6 preamp.

Analog sources 98% of the time. Even hi-Rez digital doesn't cut it. My system is built for resolution and speed. Good analog source material is amazing. Master tape epiphanies!

[ZAKski288]

WOW that expensive. Last I heard, the drivers were around $58.00 each if you bought four, plus shipping. Zak

[sfrounds]

I visited threads going back for years on the prices for these drivers, and they were not expensive at all.  Well that has changed. When I spoke with Dan at Misco and discussed past and present pricing, he said they used to make hundreds of these drivers for Brian at a time. Their stock of drivers and assembly parts has been depleted. They had to custom machine parts (I believe out sourced) to build them. It was rather simple...buy them or not.

[Stimpy]

I wonder if the CSS APR12 passive radiators could be make to work?  Maybe they can be attached with a MDF trim ring adapter?  Then tuned with slightly less weight, to compensate for the mass differences between the 10" and 12" passives.  The APR12 can still be found at Solen.CA and Meniscus.  Not many left, so buy quickly.

https://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/passive-radiators/apr12/

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/css-apr12/

[sfrounds]

I was thinking the exact same thing when I was trying to track down a pair of the 10's.  I'm pretty sure the 12" would work fine, plus i'm sure there is an alternate 10" out there somewhere as well. I am still going to keep looking for a pair of the APR10 for a week or so before I give up hope. I had visited those links in my searching, but thanks so much for providing them to me.

I am also interested in finding out if Misco could repair or rebuild my defective 10" driver even though they were only partially involved its build. I would still like to have all of the original drivers for my own reasons. 

I believe the RM30 10" drivers are the same as the older RM40 bass drivers. So if anyone did the one pair woofer upgrade on their RM40's they may have their old pair I could possibly purchase.

I just looked at my receipt from Misco. The actual cost for the four 6.5" drivers was actually 712.80 plus shipping ($752.88)

[ZAKski288]

CSS has been bought out, and getting a new web site. I was however able to shoot them a email.


When you contacted the new owners are they going to start making the passive radiators again?  Soon?

Parts Express has 10" passive radiator. Maybe buy the cheap ones and wait for CSS to start making them, or just leave the 10" drivers temporarily in the cabinet but unhook the wiring to them. Good Luck Zak

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss265-pr-10-aluminum-cone-passive-radiator--295-500

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sd270-pr-10-passive-radiator--295-494

[Stimpy]

I was thinking the exact same thing when I was trying to track down a pair of the 10's.  I'm pretty sure the 12" would work fine, plus i'm sure there is an alternate 10" out there somewhere as well. I am still going to keep looking for a pair of the APR10 for a week or so before I give up hope. I had visited those links in my searching, but thanks so much for providing them to me.

Typically, using standard design, most speakers using passive radiators, use 2 passives to one active.  So, the 2 6.5" RM30 woofers would work best with 4 6.5" passives.  As such, I'd think the 12" passive radiator would work better than the original 10".  So, with an adapter ring, mounted using the preexisting screw holes, you could try the 12" passive, with no damage to the RM30 cabinets, and may end up with an even better sounding speaker.  Worth a shot, if all else fails.

I am also interested in finding out if Misco could repair or rebuild my defective 10" driver even though they were only partially involved its build. I would still like to have all of the original drivers for my own reasons. 

If Misco won't help with the repair, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bill LeGall at Millersound.  Bill is probably the best speaker repair guy in the country.

http://www.millersound.net/

I believe the RM30 10" drivers are the same as the older RM40 bass drivers. So if anyone did the one pair woofer upgrade on their RM40's they may have their old pair I could possibly purchase.

Good luck.

I just looked at my receipt from Misco. The actual cost for the four 6.5" drivers was actually 712.80 plus shipping ($752.88)

Quite pricey.  But, if you need 'em, you need 'em.  Working RM30's are far better than dead RM30's.  Plus, better than a lot of what's out there!

[sfrounds]

Thank you so much for the repair contact info. If Misco cannot help, it will be my next step. Thanks..

The RM30M's already have two 6.5" down firing passives with porting through the front of the bases and provide low frequency support. I really did not understand the reason for the 10" passive on the M version other than filling up a 10" hole, but was told that the upgrade to the 10 passive provided low frequency extension to 26hz using the two 6.5" megawoofers.

My RM30 C's were configured the same with two 6.5" passives without any side firing driver, and already included the two upgraded 6.5" megawoofers.  They were true line source speakers, and did me well for years.  If I recall, they only played to about 34hz  which is satisfactory as far as I am concerned.

I got an email and looks like the 10" passives are still available but may or may not be in inventory at the moment.

In any case, once I have all the old and new drivers and passives at my home, I can pretty much experiment for myself.

My many thanks to all of you who have posted for your help and support. Steve..

[Stimpy]

Remember, you have to remove the 2 downward firing 6" passive radiators, when converting to Series 2.  You then have to seal those holes off as well.  It's not mentioned in the first Sticky about the conversion, but it's noted in the second Sticky.  I'm not sure why that is, just an oversight, I suppose?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=99304.0

[sfrounds]

Yes, I am aware of the of the whole series 2 project. Thank you for your input.

I visited an old friend that I sold my beautiful piano black RM40's too. He still has them and says he will never part with them. I bought them from a dealer in DC (Lucius Morris) whom Brian made this pair for with the intention of some of his best work. They were sounding pretty gosh darn amazing.

Anyway, when I called him he still had the older 10" drivers in boxes that I gave him with the purchase (I had upgraded them with a single pair of drivers Brian recommended and sold me)

Well, the RM30's are back up and running. The magnet structure on the 10" drivers that came out of my RM30 were double magnets, and the older RM40's drivers only had a single magnet structure or half the magnet. they all ohmed out the same at about 6.5 ohms. The RM30's seem to fair much better with the heavier drivers, but they will do just fine until I get mine repaired. I supposed I could play with putty on the passives and possibly damping, but why bother...

Misco does not repair drivers. The contact link that was provided to me on the this thread for VMPS driver repairs looks very promising, but can't call him until tomorrow. Thank you again for providing me with that contact information. Very helpful!

Dan at Misco did email me the the specs on the new 6.5" drivers. If anyone is interested, let me know.

[Stimpy]

Good.  I'm glad that I'm preaching to the choir, and that you were aware of the complete Series 2 mod process.  Plus, I'm very glad the RM30's are up and running again, even if it's a temporary solution.  And it sounds like you had mega-woofers (with the dual magnet stack), in your 30's.  I hope they can be repaired?

Keep us updated!   

Oh yea, you must be in my part of the country, if you're stomping around the D.C. area?  Good to know some VMPS speakers made it this far east!   

[sfrounds]

Okay, talked with Bill from Millersound today. He recommended I have both drivers done. They are packed and will ship out in the morning. Under $200.00 for both with return shipping.  Thank you again, Steve

[Stimpy]

 

Okay, talked with Bill from Millersound today. He recommended I have both drivers done. They are packed and will ship out in the morning. Under $200.00 for both with return shipping.  Thank you again, Steve

All right, I need an update.  It's been over 3 weeks now, and no updates!  Did Bill get the woofers repaired?  Did you receive them back, and get them reinstalled?  Or were the temp woofers good enough, and you're in no hurry to return to the project?  In other words, being lazy, like me!  What gives...???   

[sfrounds]

I received the 2 woofers back from Bill maybe a week ago. I have not had time to swap them out yet, but can tell you the drivers with the single magnet just sound mushy in comparison to the double magnet drivers. Bill is a great guy...Thank you!!

In the mean time, I bought a pair of beautiful NIB piano gloss RM30M cabinets with matching wave guides and side grills. My listening preference however, are no wave guides or front grills, just exposed drivers. 

I have two of the APR10 passives on order (may take a while). and already have the four upgraded 6.5" megawoofers,

I also acquired two spare neomids only because I was able to find some.  I would love to buy more if anyone could help!

My plan is to try my RM30M's with the double magnet side firing woofers again, then perform the the series 2 upgrade and see which I prefer. I can also make some damping adjustments, and mid woofer changes during testing both ways to see what I like best. They already sound exceptionally good, and could just swap the cabinets, but enough is never enough!!

After I discover the best configuration I prefer overall, I will build new crossovers for the new cabinets with maybe something other or better than Auricaps, and then install whatever driver configuration(s) I settled for in my testing into the new cabinets.

Does anyone know or have the exact layout/design of the crossovers for the factory version of the RM30 series ll's?  I would not think its the same as the 30M's with an added capacitor, but maybe so? I could use some insight. I believe TRT caps are still available to some extent, but would consult with Jeff from Sonic Craft whenever I get to that point.

Thanks..

[Stimpy]

I received the 2 woofers back from Bill maybe a week ago. I have not had time to swap them out yet, but can tell you the drivers with the single magnet just sound mushy in comparison to the double magnet drivers. Bill is a great guy...Thank you!!

You're welcome.  I'm glad that the Millersound repair worked well for you.

In the mean time, I bought a pair of beautiful NIB piano gloss RM30M cabinets with matching wave guides and side grills. My listening preference however, are no wave guides or front grills, just exposed drivers.

 
Good job!  Were those part of the excess stock that Pat M. purchased?  Just curious.

I have two of the APR10 passives on order (may take a while). and already have the four upgraded 6.5" megawoofers,

I glad that you found the CSS passive radiators.  I didn't know any were still available.  I hope someone restarts manufacturing.  They seem like a good design.

I also acquired two spare neomids only because I was able to find some.  I would love to buy more if anyone could help!

I think I just sold the last 2 13 aperture neo panels that I had.  I'll have to double-check my stash, to be sure.

My plan is to try my RM30M's with the double magnet side firing woofers again, then perform the the series 2 upgrade and see which I prefer. I can also make some damping adjustments, and mid woofer changes during testing both ways to see what I like best. They already sound exceptionally good, and could just swap the cabinets, but enough is never enough!!

You should leave one of the current 30's as is, then build up a Gloss Black Series 2 version.  Then you could switch your source to mono, and do instant A / B comparisons between the two!

After I discover the best configuration I prefer overall, I will build new crossovers for the new cabinets with maybe something other or better than Auricaps, and then install whatever driver configuration(s) I settled for in my testing into the new cabinets.

The new ClarityCap CMR capacitor series is getting very good reviews.  The Clarity CSA's as well.  They might be a good choice.  But, Jeff doesn't carry ClarityCap's.  You'd have to shop Madisound or Parts Connexion for those.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/claritycap-caps/

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_claritycap_mr400v.html

Also, I bought my Mundorf EVO Oils, Supremes, and Supreme Silver Oils from Jeff.  Great guy, and great service.  Plus, Jeff will gladly offer recommendations for capacitors brands that should offer an improvement.

Does anyone know or have the exact layout/design of the crossovers for the factory version of the RM30 series ll's?  I would not think its the same as the 30M's with an added capacitor, but maybe so? I could use some insight. I believe TRT caps are still available to some extent, but would consult with Jeff from Sonic Craft whenever I get to that point.

I think they are the same.  You just have to solder in the extra 10uF cap.  At least according to Brian's Sticky.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=99305.0

I've got a spare RM30M crossover.  Maybe I should clone it, and build myself a set of RM30's? 

Good luck!