LIO only for Preamp

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guf

LIO only for Preamp
« on: 3 Jun 2017, 10:13 pm »
Would it be worth it to only use the LIO for the DHT preamp feature? I love my amp and I love my DAC but I'd like to be able to use the 45/2A3/PX4 DHT tubes for a pre. Or would it be too wasteful to not use all the other features?

jriggy

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #1 on: 3 Jun 2017, 11:00 pm »
Hi guf,

I am using the LIO DHT as just a preamp. I thought the same as you at first but reading about it during the release of the DHT module, I was willing to give it a try, as it read as if it was going to hit on everything I was after... it does in spades. I love it! I've owned many (more than a handful) integrateds and preamps. The LIO, even just as a preamp does it for me.

Like you, I love my amp and my DAC but the off the grid aspect is pulling me in. I will be adding the LIO DAC 2.0 module for a try when it's ready.

Jason

zybar

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #2 on: 3 Jun 2017, 11:02 pm »
Would it be worth it to only use the LIO for the DHT preamp feature? I love my amp and I love my DAC but I'd like to be able to use the 45/2A3/PX4 DHT tubes for a pre. Or would it be too wasteful to not use all the other features?

Absolutely!!

I just compared my LIO DHT to a megabuck (I think it retails for $25-30k) preamp from CAT and the LIO more than held its own.

The LIO was actually better at the extremes (with the EML 2A3 tubes) with more extension on the highs and substantially better (deeper, with better detail) bass.

The CAT was clearly better in the midrange.  The with much better body, depth, and presence.  By comparison the LIO didn't have the CAT's magic and wasn't quite as engaging.

George

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #3 on: 7 Jun 2017, 04:33 pm »
Would it be worth it to only use the LIO for the DHT preamp feature? I love my amp and I love my DAC but I'd like to be able to use the 45/2A3/PX4 DHT tubes for a pre. Or would it be too wasteful to not use all the other features?

Hi guf,

Off the top of my head, I'd say around 25% of LIO orders are configured as a LIO Preamp (or preamp with dac and/or phonostage).

I think you'll have a very hard time finding a preamp with the sonic qualities of LIO DHT PRE for anywhere near its price, and if you
already love your dac and amp, why not just start with LIO Preamp?  You can always later try LIO modules later and do comparisons (with 30-day return policy).  Trying them is very easy...

Feel free to contact me with any questions.


Hi zybar and jriggy,

Thanks for chiming in while I was away at LAAS!

Vinnie

bernardo

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #4 on: 7 Jun 2017, 07:13 pm »
Vinnie-
What is the approximate lead time currently for a LIO DHT PRE? Thanks.

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #5 on: 7 Jun 2017, 07:30 pm »
Vinnie-
What is the approximate lead time currently for a LIO DHT PRE? Thanks.

Hi bernardo,

If you ordered a LIO DHT PREAMP this week, we should be able to ship to you by the end of this month.

Feel free to call or email me with any questions.

Best regards,

Vinnie

Firefightingrob

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #6 on: 22 Jun 2017, 06:18 pm »
I use the Lio with AVC tubestage as a preamp/phono and headphone (on occasion).  Wonderring about tube rolling. Stock tubes are quiet and neutral, wondering if anyone can recommend tubes to add warmth and more 3d. Preferably while retaining the quiet noise floor. First time tube component owner here.

hubi

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #7 on: 24 Jun 2017, 09:13 am »
Hi Firefightingrob

I can recommend you Mullard Tubes. I have had also the AVC tubestage module, but made last summer the upgrade to the DHT. In my setup (I use the LIO as preamp with active studio monitors) the Mullard Tubes (http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes/E188CC_7308_Mullard_UK_made_NOS_frame_grid_tube_with_gold_pins_3812) were really far the best for the AVC tubestage (more warmth and more 3D - they were just ideal for my setup)! - For the DHT I'm still on the stock tubes .... . I have still the Mullards, so if you are interested, send me a PM.
Best, Hubi



gene9p

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #8 on: 23 Jul 2018, 06:16 pm »
received a beautiful LIO a few weeks ago that I am using as a preamp .I am thinking about adding the amp module. At this time I am still using my Bryston Dac, Manley Chinook phono, and Mcintosh MC152 amp. Tried several tubes and right now I am using the EH 6922's that came with the Chinook. Very nice combo with my Harbeth 7's  :D


Bones13

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #9 on: 23 Jul 2018, 09:53 pm »
received a beautiful LIO a few weeks ago that I am using as a preamp .I am thinking about adding the amp module. At this time I am still using my Bryston Dac, Manley Chinook phono, and Mcintosh MC152 amp. Tried several tubes and right now I am using the EH 6922's that came with the Chinook. Very nice combo with my Harbeth 7's  :D


Thanks for the picture of the new silver aluminum face. Looking good, have fun!

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #10 on: 27 Jul 2018, 03:44 pm »
Thanks for sharing, gene9p!

Looks great, and the LIO MOSFET AMP really sings with the C7's and all the Harbeth models.
You'll love it!  :singing:

Vinnie

gene9p

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #11 on: 27 Jul 2018, 10:26 pm »
I will be anxiously awaiting the postman and it's delivery tomorrow!!! :D

gene9p

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #12 on: 28 Jul 2018, 08:30 pm »
Mod arrived today. Very easy install. Sound is just great!! Easily driving my Harbeth 7's with great detail. Lps, Cd's and Tuner never sounded so good. The LIO delivered quite a blow to some heavy competition from Mcintosh.

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #13 on: 2 Aug 2018, 02:17 pm »
Mod arrived today. Very easy install. Sound is just great!! Easily driving my Harbeth 7's with great detail. Lps, Cd's and Tuner never sounded so good. The LIO delivered quite a blow to some heavy competition from Mcintosh.

Hey gene9p,

Thanks for posting your initial impressions.  LIO MOSFET AMP is a beautiful match with all Harbeth models.  :singing:
Enjoy your LIO Integrated Amp!

Vinnie

gene9p

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #14 on: 2 Aug 2018, 02:50 pm »
Thanks Vinnie

I hooked up my babies, a pair of B&W 805 Signatures in Birdseye Red, the LIO drove them with ease.... :thumb:
Sadly they are for sale but no takers so far which is fine by me.




Cykelmyg

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #15 on: 26 Aug 2018, 10:22 am »
Lio Preamp and long IC cable runs?
I just wonder, how will the different line output types (VAC with or without tube stage, or the DHT version) respond to long IC cable runs to active speakers?
Quite concrete I think of cable runs up to maybe 20 feet. Will the mentioned line output types have a low enough output impedance to drive such long cables (xlr) into a somewhat low input impedance of around 10 Kohms in an active speaker? Will there be some sonic issues in such a situation? Which of the above mentioned line output types will be preferable?
Have anybody experienced?

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #16 on: 26 Aug 2018, 03:48 pm »
Hello Cykelmyg,

Welcome to the VR forum!

All 3 of the LIO linestage options are active and should have no trouble driving 20 foot long interconnects.  I recommend using shielded cables, and keeping them away from sources of noise (e.g. power cables, power supplies to other devices, etc.). 

10kohm impedance of your active speaker is also fine.

Best regards,

Vinnie

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #17 on: 26 Aug 2018, 05:17 pm »
Vinnie,

This thread is timely in regards to a question I had a while back and just remembered about the LIO preamp stages.

If one has the AVC stage and is using it without the tubes, is there still an active solid state buffer stage following it of some kind to deal with impedance matching and all the other good stuff that comes along with an active versus passive volume control?

Slightly aside, considering the folks that run smaller/bandwidth limited monitor sized speakers and multiple (greater than two) subs, this got me wondering something else: could the same tech that went in to making the Spatial LIO crossover solutions be used to make an "active buffered preamp module" that would add additional outputs to LIO specifically either for use with subwoofers (maybe with a low pass crossover of, say 80Hz baked in to a given set of outputs) and or the same idea but with a high pass filter (again say at 80Hz just to pick one number to make implementation simple) on a set of outputs such that folks using such setups could take the low end load off of their main amps and take advantage of all the benefits that entails for the outputs feeding the amps hooked to their top sections/monitors? 

Such a module wouldn't be as system-specific as a custom rolled analog active crossover solution tailored to specific speakers such as a the current module for the Spatials, but I think it might make for a uniquely versatile preamp feature for LIO among its competitors to out of the box be able to be a turn-key solution for folks swarming subs, using combined passive high/active low speakers, doing single driver speakers with helper woofers, etc.?

Hope you're enjoying your weekend!

Jon

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #18 on: 2 Sep 2018, 07:21 pm »
Hi Jon,

Quote
If one has the AVC stage and is using it without the tubes, is there still an active solid state buffer stage following it of some kind to deal with impedance matching and all the other good stuff that comes along with an active versus passive volume control?

If one is use just the AVC volume control, it is completely passive (I say "passive-aggressive" because for most of the volume range, the AVC is stepping down the voltage as it attenuates, but also stepping up output current, which is lowering output impedance somewhat like an active output stage).  But it is completely passive when it is only the AVC in use.

Normally, one uses the AVC/Tubestage together.  The tubestage buffer follows the AVC volume control.

Quote
could the same tech that went in to making the Spatial LIO crossover solutions be used to make an "active buffered preamp module" that would add additional outputs to LIO specifically either for use with subwoofers (maybe with a low pass crossover of, say 80Hz baked in to a given set of outputs) and or the same idea but with a high pass filter (again say at 80Hz just to pick one number to make implementation simple) on a set of outputs such that folks using such setups could take the low end load off of their main amps and take advantage of all the benefits that entails for the outputs feeding the amps hooked to their top sections/monitors? 

Thank you for your idea.  In theory, the answer is yes (it certainly could be done).  Realistically speaking, I just do not have the time to design such a custom module (and it would need a good amount of adjustability in its design to work for a wide range of speakers and subs).  And I don't believe there would be that many customers interested in such a module (compared to modules such as the dac, phonostage, headphone amp, tube linestages, etc.). 

Best regards,

Vinnie

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: LIO only for Preamp
« Reply #19 on: 2 Sep 2018, 09:50 pm »
Thanks for the reply, Vinnie!

Its all good; I have a pretty good idea where I want my system to go and was just trying to sort if I could slot a LIO in to get where I want to go.  Regardless, I do have to thank you again for the opportunity to listen to a LIO, which is what really got me pointed in the direction I'm headed today as far as my preamp.  If I wasn't completely satisfied with my DAC already, I would really have a hard time saying no to a LIO.

If everything goes according to plan, I'll be finished with school (again) by the end of next year, and will be able to cruise around a bit to catch up with you at a show somewhere.  I know how awesome LIO is, so I'm really interested to hear the L2 setup one of these days.  Keeping it real, for now a little too rich for my bank account, but I'm slowly adding to a short list for the day when I jump a tax bracket or two.  :thumb:

Rock on next month with the two showrooms and the full-on L2 solution release party!  I hope you enjoy a day off with the fam' for the holiday tomorrow.   8)

Jon