Best bang for buck CD Player upgrades and who can do them?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #20 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 03:15 am »

Quote from: Lkdog

I have also made inquiries via email to Empirical Audio and Reference Audio Mods.
Any thoughts on these guys?
Thanks.

Steve Nugent/Empirical Audio is NOT a modder, per se; he re-engineers your gear. His work is terrific and his customer service/communication is top-notch.

Check his website out and check out his resume - not too many ex-Intel engineers partly responsible for the creation of the Pentium II doing mods out there, I'm sure

It's always a matter of personal taste and budget, of course, but your gear is in good hands with Mr. Nugent. I don't know some of these other fella's mentioned, so I am not dissuading you from engaging them as you see fit. I'm just giving you a way high 'thumbs up' for Empirical Audio

Good luck on your choice of modders.

Marbles · « **Reply #21 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 03:37 am »

Steve @ Empirical does top notch work, you pay for it, but it is top notch.

The fact that Dan Wright is booked up should tell you how good he is.

Both Dan and Steve have forums here.

Reference Audio Mods asked for a forum but it was voted down by the membership. This probably had nothing to do with the quality of their work, but more to do with the attitude they showed when they arrived.

Alex Peychev (APL) has a forum here as well. Seems his modded Denon 3910 is supposed to be a killer unit. I don't think he does as much custom work as Steve or Dan though.

Lkdog · « **Reply #22 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 10:08 pm »

MArbles-

Are you able to elaborate on the RAM attitude?
A guy emailed me back from there and was pretty thorough in his reponse.

Steve Nugent from EA also emailed me back and was also very informative and thorough.

I am having trouble comparing apples to apples in what they say they could do for the money.

Maybe somebody would possibly help me translate their email responses??

I do not want to publicly share the emails as that may not be the most ethical thing to do as they had been so kind to respond on a weekend, but maybe someone here could read them and tell me what the hell they are saying

I feel like MArlin in Finding Nemo with the little turtle telling him how to get off of the EAC. "I now you are trying to tell me something, but I can't undertsand a word you are saying"

Stuff about analog out stages, power supplies and clocks and power supplies for the clocks, etc.

Any volunteers?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #23 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 10:19 pm »

No volunteer here, Lkdog....just a music nut, not an engineering type.

Steve Nugent's natural inclination is to be a little geeky (hey, he's an electrical engineer, after all

), but if you ask him to break down his engineer-speak he will...and always does for the layman.

I've asked him a couple times to better explain things for me to understand, and he managed to make it pallatable for me.

Lkdog · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 12:41 am »

Steve sounds like a real sharp guy and people here really recommend him.
I will try and get more info from him and find our more about his philosophy.

Horizons · « **Reply #25 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 12:50 am »

Quote from: Jay S

The mod route can get expensive and if you are not happy then you can't go back. I suggest that you buy a dac on the used market. My Cary 303 was an excellent transport and I bet your 308 will be as well. I found the Scott Nixon TubeDac to be a great upgrade to my Cary 303 -- smoother highs, seductive vocals and better all-around musicality, though with a bit less speed and bass extension. You can shop around for a used TubeDac - if it isn't your cup of tea then you can sell it for around what you bough ...

I second this approach. I have been lucky enough to home audition over a dozen CD players and DACs. Frankly, most sounded VERY similar. That is, until I tried a non-OS, filterless DAC like the Nixon. IMHO, you can throw a lot of money on digital cables, isolation, clocks, and other tweaks and get very marginal improvements or changes in the sound. A Nixon or Ack is a substantial difference in sound. If you don't like it, you can sell it for almost what you paid new on Audiogon.

Marbles · « **Reply #26 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 01:00 am »

Quote from: Lkdog

MArbles-

Are you able to elaborate on the RAM attitude?
.

I am, but I won't

I did find these threads

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=9246

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=12154

Lkdog · « **Reply #27 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 01:49 am »

Quote

I am, but I won't

Hahahaha!.

Ok, Will check out the threads.

Horizons- Thanks for the input. I change my mind each day.
I did try and buy a used EVS DAC which I think is similar in design to what you are stating.
The analog output stage mods these guys at EA and RAM are talking is simlar also if I undertsand thier language correctly.

Again, this is a little over my head.

Marbles · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 03:59 am »

Here's another one

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=11836

Lkdog · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 05:26 am »

Tough crowd

Doug is actually the person that responded to me.
Very enthusiastic.
I just don't understand this stuff very well yet, so am hesitant to pull the trigger.

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 05:39 pm »

Quote from: dyfromhawaii

the biggest bang for your $5.00!!!

I've done it to my sony scd775-ce sacd/cd player---check out:

www.didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio/CDP/cdp.html

The link doesn't seem to work.

Scott F. · « **Reply #31 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 07:41 pm »

Quote from: Lkdog

....
1) a bit too neutral at times (which is generally a good thing)
2) it can be very slightly congested on guitar rock music or busy rock recordings (Satriani, Jeff Beck, etc) sometimes . The Cary is very very good at ensemble jazz and more personal music (Lyle Lovett, Nora Jones, etc).

Looking for a slightly bigger and deeper soundstage with a bit more separation of instruments, and a little warmer or organic sound. ...

Just reading into what you typed, you may want to look into a tubed DAC or a tubed player.

Scott Nixons DAC is very nice sounding and fairly affordable. Also Deware does a tubed output stage on a universal SACD player cheap (I forget which one). I want to say it's $620 for the unit complete with the tubed output. Then you've got the AH!, great sound for not tons of money. I'd suggest Kevins decked out model with the upgraded opamps and some cool NOS tubes (Seimens 7308's are my fav).

Not knocking the other guys mentions of tweaks but many of them will dry up the sound even more than what it is right now. Last thing you want is a more analytical presentation. Try some tubes. You won't regret it.

Just my $.02

AphileEarlyAdopter · « **Reply #32 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 07:41 pm »

One should try external tweaks before modding.
If you have a very good rack, I would suggest any
ball bearing devices - cost < $100.
If your rack is not that great, I would suggest vibrapod+cones < $42.
Please clean your RCA connections and use a good quality IC.
Minimum is rscables.com or homegrownaudio.com for < $150.
If you have exhausted these, you can go for the mod.
But like Jay has suggested, a DAC would be a better alternative.
The Philips 795sa for $150 is a good transport from audioadvisor.com
and a Benchmark DAC for < $1K. You can sell the Cary and with the xtra $4-500 should be able to afford this setup.

Jay S · « **Reply #33 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 01:18 am »

Scott,

FYI, I have been using a Siemens 7308 for >1 year in my Scott Nixon TubeDac. I recently switching in an Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8 and have noticed much better frequency extension, better clarity, and a more coherent sound overall.

Regards,

- Jay

Lkdog · « **Reply #34 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 04:16 am »

AphileEarlyAdopter-

Built my own rack with heavy MDF shelves and threaded rods. Have just recently tried a bit of isolation and some dampening.
Coincidentally, I do use RS Audio cables for my IC's. Very pleased with them. I also use an aftermarket power cord (Ven Haus).
I think I have covered most of the bases here, and it is time to either accept and enjoy the sound I have, or try a mod or a dac.

JAy S and Scott F.-
I have read a bit on the Nixon tube DAC.
How is the bottom end? The Cary has a decent extended and tight low end. Also do the highs get rolled off?
Some folks rave about the Nixon DAC and others are not so sure.
It looks interesting to me without a doubt.

Jay S · « **Reply #35 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 05:06 am »

My Cary 303 had a slightly more extended bottom end than the TubeDac, but I feel that bass could get boomy. The Mensa DI/O had more extended and tighter bass than the Cary.

As for the highs, I don't find the TubeDac rolled off. What I like about it is that it has minimal top-end glare, which I hear in and are at unacceptable levels in most other dacs.

Best thing about the TubeDac is that you can tube roll to fine tune the sound. One thing you will not get is super deep bass, but if you are fine with that and focus on overall musicality then you will be happy with the TubeDac.

Lkdog · « **Reply #36 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 06:34 am »

Thanks Jay.
Will certainly keep this in mind.

Lkdog · « **Reply #37 on:** 10 Dec 2004, 06:58 pm »

Well, here is a little update.
I just missed a nice deal on an EVS Millenium DAC2, and I almost made a deal for a Nixon Tube DAC+, but it did not work out.

At this point, I am on the list with Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio to have my CAry modded by him. I can't afford a full enchilada turbomod, but he can do a DAC and output stage mod in the unit for a reasonable price.

Will keep you all posted when things are completed. It will be a couple months as he is backed up until after the CES show.
Thanks for your help on this.

Jay S · « **Reply #38 on:** 11 Dec 2004, 12:08 am »

Sounds like a good plan. Cary cd players are pretty well engineered in general so I imagine they require less work to get them truly singing than a typical mass market player. If you want to see pics of what a Cary 303 looks like inside, have a look at my gallery (see the link in my signature below). Keep us posted!

Lkdog · « **Reply #39 on:** 11 Dec 2004, 02:00 am »

Thanks Jay-

You have been a big help.
I will check out your pics. I am hoping that the transport and build quality will be an asset in the mod process to turn a good player into a special one.
Steve sure comes highly recommended and he is very purposeful in his approach it seems.