Best bang for buck CD Player upgrades and who can do them?

Lkdog · « **on:** 4 Dec 2004, 02:44 am »

Am exploring some options for my front end.
Presently have a Cary 308.
Am willing to spend some modest bucks on an upgrade mod to the CAry, or a used DAC.

Anyone have thoughts on what is best bang for the buck upgrade path to a stock CD Player (this one in particular), and secondly who would you recommend for such upgrades?

I am not talking about spending $1000 for a mod, or a DAC-more like 4-500$.

ANy recommendations on a DAC are also welcome.

Have been reading up on Bolder modded ART DIO's; Channel Islands Modwright versions, ACK DACKK, Scott Nixon, etc in my price range.

Thanks for your input!

dyfromhawaii · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 09:25 am »

the biggest bang for your $5.00!!!

I've done it to my sony scd775-ce sacd/cd player---check out:

www.didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio/CDP/cdp.html

Rocket · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 10:40 am »

Hi,

You already have a good quality cdp and i think it would be best if spent your money on the player.

You could look at a tentlabs clock to upgrade the cdp, which typically cost about $120 us to purchase plus installation.

There are 2 modders on this forum empirical audio and modwright who both have very good reputations. Steve at empirical audio seems to have a wider range of players/dac he modifies and it might be worth contacting him and telling him your budget, perhaps he can help you.

In your price range for a dac there seems to be 3 contenders, scott nixon, ack dack! and the mensa art dac.

Others which are more expensive would be a secondhand perpetual technologies p3a with modwright level 1 or 2 modifications or a secondhand bel canto dac 1.

Personally i would try to modify your cary cdp.

Good luck with your choice.

Regards

Rocket

Levi · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 12:31 pm »

I would suggest Dan, Modwright.

jackman · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 05:00 pm »

Levi beat me to the punch but I'd also like to put my $.02 in for Modwright.com. Dan is a real gentleman and a great guy. He buile my RAM CDP and even added some modifications including an LC3 clock. On the phone and over email he was extremely helpful and a quick look under the hood revealed excellent workmanship.

Dan offers a range of mods from budget to "cost is no objective" ultimate type mods. Best of all, he has a great ear for good sounding gear and he stands behind his work. I'd go to Dan again for my next mods but I think the RAM is staying around for a while.

J

randytsuch · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 05:00 pm »

For bang for the buck, I would go with Ric Schultz of tweakaudio.com/evs. Stan Warren used to be king of this category, but he has a long lead time, and I have heard he is out of the mod buisness and back into production.

BTW, I have a panasonic DVD player from Ric, and it sounds way better than it should, for what I paid.

Randy

maxwalrath · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 05:48 pm »

ditto for Modwright. amazing products, and a great guy to boot.

Lkdog · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 06:03 pm »

Thanks for the ideas and referrals.

Is a clock upgrade one of the first things someone should do?
I get confused when I read about mods for CDP's.
What does one usually do first to improve sound-maybe I could hold off on the extra less critical mods until later.
Maybe what I am saying is where does the law of diminishing returns kick in on these upgrades?
Thanks.

Jose Garcia · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 06:25 pm »

Any reputable modifier could do a great job. Dan, is more than that. As you have read, he is an amazing professional and a very good audiophile too.

You have a $2,000 unit and are willing to invest $1,000....there are a lot of things that can be done to a unit:

1- change the clock
2-better internal caps
3-improve filtering
4-damping
5-change DACS
6-adding isolation
7-adding a better IEC
8-changing power cords
9-internal wiring
10- add/change tubes
11-better quality RCA's
12-using a good PLC
13-etc......

...you got the idea.

Which mods to do first or which ones add better performance? Only an experienced modifier can tell you.

A $500 outboard DAC has to be a better value IF the sound of your transport through the DAC is much better than the player alone. Consider that a $500 DAC is cheapper than most modifications BUT we are talking of a $2,000 transport !!! Could a more affordable transport give you a better performance with the $500 DAC than your Cary???

Who came first, the hen or the egg!!!

Better call Dan and ask for an opinion.

Best luck.

Jose.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 06:36 pm »

I haven't been able to go down this route yet, but there are some people that swear by the benefits of top notch vibration control. I have my modwright modified CD player sitting on BDR cones, every now and then I switch to herbies tenderfeet. I don't notice an amazing amount of difference, but from what I've read of neuance shelfs there's a night and day difference.

If I had to start over with a grand to spend and couldn't in home audition every mod, I'd probably order a neuance shelf based on audiocircle reviews from the guys that post here all the time, a herbies audio lab damping mat, and give the extra $800 to Modwright.

Rocket · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Dec 2004, 11:46 pm »

Hi,

I would definitely put dan at the top of the list but i don't think he modifies cary cdp's, you could always contact him by phone and ask him if he is willing to do a special one off upgrade for you.

The modifications which have been suggested to you would definitely improve your cdp by a wide margin. Dan recommends modifying a one box player instead of upgrading dacs.

Regards

Rocket

Jay S · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 02:25 am »

The mod route can get expensive and if you are not happy then you can't go back. I suggest that you buy a dac on the used market. My Cary 303 was an excellent transport and I bet your 308 will be as well. I found the Scott Nixon TubeDac to be a great upgrade to my Cary 303 -- smoother highs, seductive vocals and better all-around musicality, though with a bit less speed and bass extension. You can shop around for a used TubeDac - if it isn't your cup of tea then you can sell it for around what you bought it for. The Mensa DI/O was a nice upgrade to my 303 as well and I was very happy with mine for a long time. It had bass and dynamics in spades and better resolution than the TubeDac but was less seductive sounding.

Lkdog · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 02:54 am »

Well, I emailed Dan @ Modwright and he kindly emailed me back right away.
He states that they are really backed up right now and can't take any custom work.

Lots of good ideas here.

Just so you know-I got $900 in the Cary as I bought it used.
I upgraded the power cord with a Ven Haus.

They go for around $750-800 now used in case I wished to sell it and start over.
It is a non tubed Cary model.
It sounds pretty good in my setup(see signature below), clean balanced accurate with tight bass, good soundstage, but I would say it has two weakenesses if one is nitpicking-

1) a bit too neutral at times (which is generally a good thing)
2) it can be very slightly congested on guitar rock music or busy rock recordings (Satriani, Jeff Beck, etc) sometimes . The Cary is very very good at ensemble jazz and more personal music (Lyle Lovett, Nora Jones, etc).

Looking for a slightly bigger and deeper soundstage with a bit more separation of instruments, and a little warmer or organic sound.

Will do some more research here-I just found this website this week. I usually hang around Audio Asylum and A-gon.

Sure is lots of info here and helpful folks!

Jay S · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 05:23 am »

My Mensa DI/O had better resolution than my Cary 303. It wasn't warmer, but I found it more musical overall since it was more "in control" of the music, particularly the frequency extremes.

You may also want to try a set of FFOD isolation feet under the Cary. Bolder Cable has then for $16.50 *shipped*. I tried a set on my Tube Dac and found that it made the overall presentation cleaner, clearer and more balanced.

Lkdog · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 06:08 am »

Quote

You may also want to try a set of FFOD isolation feet under the Cary. Bolder Cable has then for $16.50 *shipped*.

Does that stuff really work for people?
I do have my equipment on a home made MDF five shelf rack that is pretty stable, but I am willing to try anything.
I did recently stick a 75 ohm resistor in the digital out of the Cary.
I am not sure it has an effect, but it was a 4$ tweak!

Jay S · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 06:23 am »

Well, it worked for me... If you check the Bolder Cable forum you'll find a reference to a review from Audioasylum.

elnero · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 11:31 am »

Quote from: Lkdog

Looking for a slightly bigger and deeper soundstage with a bit more separation of instruments, and a little warmer or organic sound.

This is just a thought, maybe you could sell the Cary and pick up an Eastern Electric MiniMax CD player. The description of the things you would like to better in your system sound like what the MiniMax's strengths are supposed to be. It's a tubed player so you should be able to fine tune the sound through tuberolling as well.

I just noticed an ad over at Audiogon in which Bill at Morningstar has the MiniMax priced at $750 for the holidays. You could probably get $750 for the Cary fairly easily which means you might find what your looking for with minimal costs. The MiniMax supposedly also has a good modding path through places like Underwood Hi-Fi so that gives an option for the future as well.

Note, I haven't heard the MiniMax but I've done quite a bit of reading up on it. Mine should hopefully be arriving sometime this coming week.

rosconey · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 12:44 pm »

xmas special on the mini max for ac members

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15019

elnero · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 03:40 pm »

Quote from: rosconey

xmas special on the mini max for ac members

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15019

Wow, even better!!!

Lkdog · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Dec 2004, 05:00 pm »

Jay-I will check out the isolation feet. You have me thinking now about dampening and isolation stuff which I really have not done.

Will also check out the minimax. I have not had any tube gear since I was in high school when that was what people bought 30 years ago:)

I have also made inquiries via email to Empirical Audio and Reference Audio Mods.
Any thoughts on these guys?
Thanks.