Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO

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borelek

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Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« on: 26 Apr 2017, 03:49 pm »
I got a LIO fulfilling my needs with minimal settings. A DSD/PCM DAC, Resistor Volume Control (RVC) only and MOSFET Amplifier. No Tubestage.

It sounds very good with my Boenicke W5.

What advice do you have for the next upgrade I can do, and what can I hope for it.

Thanks for your help

serge


Vinnie R.

Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #1 on: 26 Apr 2017, 06:11 pm »
I got a LIO fulfilling my needs with minimal settings. A DSD/PCM DAC, Resistor Volume Control (RVC) only and MOSFET Amplifier. No Tubestage.

It sounds very good with my Boenicke W5.

What advice do you have for the next upgrade I can do, and what can I hope for it.

Thanks for your help

serge

Hi Serge,

I'm glad you are enjoying your LIO + Boenicke W5 combo!  Hopefully I'll finally get a chance to listen to them next month in Munich, as
I have read a lot of good things about them.

Assuming you find that you have enough power with LIO MOSFET AMp driving your W5's (I'm sure you do!), my recommendation
is to upgrade the heart of the LIO... the linestage.  Others are free to post their experiences as well, but that is where I believe you will get the most transformation.

AVC/Tubestage: http://www.vinnierossi.com/modules/avctubestage-combo/

or,

DHT PRE: http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre

If the DHT PRE is in your budget, then I highly recommend it and there really is no going back!  There is nothing else out there
like it!  If you've been reading Srajan of 6moons over the years, you will know that he is not tube addict by any means,
but he still loved LIO DHT PRE enough to award it Component of the Year, 2016 (and he reviews many components throughout the year):
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/2016bestof/1.html

Snag a pair of KR Audio PX4 tubes in Poland (see my Axpona 2017 show thread), and you will get pulled into the music like a vortex  :singing:




I also was just on the phone with a customer who is loving his Psvane WE 101D (Western Electric Replicas), and he was on the
DHT PRE tube tour and has tried the Emission Labs 2A3 Mesh, SV811-10's, and the other in that tour).  These 101Ds are his
favorite so far:



Now that I have the PX4's on order, I'm going to have to finally order the Psvane 101Ds for my LIO. 

Hey, we only live once and we spend a lot of hours of our life listening to music, right?  :green:

Vinnie

lutry

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Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #2 on: 27 Apr 2017, 02:28 am »
Hi Serge, I have a pair of Boenicke's W5SE hooked to my LIO (AVC/ Tubestage, DAC, MOSFET). I'm very satisfied with the sound, however for my taste I wished it had a little more tone density, meat, especially in the mids. I tried a pair of Harbeth P3ERS and it was an improvement on these aspects however I lost the speed & huge soundstage (and bass extension for its size) that sets the Boenicke's apart. Hence, I'm considering swapping the Tubestage for the DHT in order to increase that "tone density" and keep the W5SE. Hope this helps.

borelek

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Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #3 on: 30 Apr 2017, 09:03 pm »
Hello Vinnie
Hi Serge,

I'm glad you are enjoying your LIO + Boenicke W5 combo!  Hopefully I'll finally get a chance to listen to them next month in Munich, as
I have read a lot of good things about them.
A double chance the first to listen, the second to meet Sven Boenicke, a very cool guy

Assuming you find that you have enough power with LIO MOSFET AMp driving your W5's (I'm sure you do!), my recommendation
is to upgrade the heart of the LIO... the linestage.  Others are free to post their experiences as well, but that is where I believe you will get the most transformation.

AVC/Tubestage:
I'm listening at level 25 to 45 !
My steps to the nirvana will be probably AVS/Tubestage. If I can try the AVS only, before installing the tubestage it would be fun to catch the differences.

The DHT is quite intimidating, I don't really understand half of Srajan text, but I like the melody and the nature of the problems.

Hey, we only live once and we spend a lot of hours of our life listening to music, right?  :green:

My motto in that matter is " Never die the richest of your cemetery."
Hi Serge, I have a pair of Boenicke's W5SE hooked to my LIO (AVC/ Tubestage, DAC, MOSFET). I'm very satisfied with the sound,

Many thanks, it's after your advices I've met Sven and fall in love with W5. I've SE as well.
Thank you very much, it helped a lot.

Vinnie R.

Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #4 on: 1 May 2017, 02:33 pm »
Quote
I'm listening at level 25 to 45 !
My steps to the nirvana will be probably AVC/Tubestage. If I can try the AVC only, before installing the tubestage it would be fun to catch the differences.

Hi borelek,

The AVC/Tubestage has jumpers on the module that allow you to run it as an AVC-only, or AVC/Tubestage.  :wink:

Quote
The DHT is quite intimidating, I don't really understand half of Srajan text, but I like the melody and the nature of the problems.

Nothing to be intimidated about - it is very straightforward.  Srajan's first few pages contained a discussion with me about design challenges of a DHT Linestage. 

Operation is as simple as making sure you have the correct switch setting for the tube you are using (e.g. the stock 2A3 needs to be set to 2.5V), turning it on and enjoying it!  If you are rolling tubes often, then you want to occasionally clean/tighten the tube sockets (easy enough to do). 

Vinnie

Timbana

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Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #5 on: 1 May 2017, 10:32 pm »

Now that I have the PX4's on order, I'm going to have to finally order the Psvane 101Ds for my LIO. 

Hey, we only live once and we spend a lot of hours of our life listening to music, right?  :green:

Vinnie


Vinnie,

Can you tell me where you ordered your PX4 tubes? I haven't found them online yet. BTW, I discovered that EML has some new mesh plate PX4s. However, they cost $893/pair and I haven't been able to find any info on how they compare with others, so am reluctant to consider them.

Thanks,

Charlie

Vinnie R.

Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #6 on: 2 May 2017, 12:47 am »
Hi Charlie,

www.best300b.com sells them.   They are in Poland.

Vinnie

Timbana

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Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #7 on: 2 May 2017, 03:04 am »
Hi Charlie,

www.best300b.com sells them.   They are in Poland.

Vinnie

Thanks Vinnie!

borelek

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Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #8 on: 3 May 2017, 06:27 pm »
Hi borelek,

The AVC/Tubestage has jumpers on the module that allow you to run it as an AVC-only, or AVC/Tubestage.  :wink:
...
:thumb: as the AVC and LIO Tubestage are built onto the same module, I assume that this not same tubestage for the AVC and for the RVC attenuator, therefor I can't ear RVC with the tubestage of the AVC !

...Nothing to be intimidated about - it is very straightforward.  Srajan's first few pages contained a discussion with me about design challenges of a DHT Linestage. 

Operation is as simple as making sure you have the correct switch setting for the tube you are using (e.g. the stock 2A3 needs to be set to 2.5V), turning it on and enjoying it!  If you are rolling tubes often, then you want to occasionally clean/tighten the tube sockets (easy enough to do). 

Vinnie

I'm intimidated by the technical part. I like to see creativity at work. But by the "artistic" part. I'm already addicted to classical music, if I have to be addicted to tube rolling my life will become a hell ... perhaps ;-)

Vinnie R.

Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #9 on: 3 May 2017, 06:41 pm »
:thumb: as the AVC and LIO Tubestage are built onto the same module, I assume that this not same tubestage for the AVC and for the RVC attenuator, therefor I can't ear RVC with the tubestage of the AVC !


Hi borelek,

The AVC/Tubestage uses the same LIO Tubestage that we offer with the RVC, but instead of RVC it is upgraded to a Slagleformer volume control ("AVC") and we install the AVC and Tubestage on the same module.

You can run the AVC/Tubestage in AVC-only mode (no tubestage in the signal path), or AVC/Tubestage (AVC, followed by tubestage) - set via two jumpers. 

[NoteL  If you wanted to use RVC + Tubestage, you would need to order the separate LIO Tubestage module to go with your RVC, as we do not have an RVC / Tubestage combo module.]

Quote
I'm intimidated by the technical part. I like to see creativity at work. But by the "artistic" part. I'm already addicted to classical music, if I have to be addicted to tube rolling my life will become a hell ... perhaps ;-)

Nothing to be intimidated about technically.  It's all about the listening, And you don't have to be a tube roller - it sounds remarkable with the stock 2A3s.  In my personal opinion, the DHT PRE with stock 2A3 sounds significantly better than the AVC/Tubestage (no matter what 6922 family of tubes I've rolled in the AVC/Tubestage, including Mullards, Telefunkens, MiniWatt Dario, Amperex... you name it!).  Many LIO AVC/Tubestage customers who have traded-in for DHT PRE would agree - there really is nothing else like it!  :singing:

But if you are looking to enjoy the journey of upgrading through the 3 tiers of LIO linestage options (as many LIO customers before you have done), then perhaps it would make sense to try AVC/Tubestage next.  You can always trade it in later for DHT PRE if you wish  :wink:

Vinnie

borelek

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Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #10 on: 3 May 2017, 07:05 pm »
...[NoteL  If you wanted to use RVC + Tubestage, you would need to order the separate LIO Tubestage module to go with your RVC, as we do not have an RVC / Tubestage combo module.]
could be a good idea, but even if "the destination is the journey" too much is too much.
Even if I'm very happy with that simple LIO, I'll shortly go to a AVC/Tubestage combo & listening it with and without tubestage. For the Fall a DHT PRE. And in between, hopefully the LIO DAC 2-0 :-)
what a journey :-)

Vinnie R.

Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #11 on: 4 May 2017, 02:40 pm »
could be a good idea, but even if "the destination is the journey" too much is too much.
Even if I'm very happy with that simple LIO, I'll shortly go to a AVC/Tubestage combo & listening it with and without tubestage. For the Fall a DHT PRE. And in between, hopefully the LIO DAC 2-0 :-)
what a journey :-)

Hi borelek,

I have a new batch of AVC/Tubestage modules finished and ready to ship, so just email me when you are ready  8)

Vinnie

borelek

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Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #12 on: 11 May 2017, 11:16 am »
Hi borelek,

.... so just email me when you are ready  8)

Vinnie

So did I 

Vinnie R.

Re: Playing in Full the Game of Upgrading a LIO
« Reply #13 on: 11 May 2017, 05:03 pm »
So did I

Hi borelek,

ok - I'll be shipping your AVC/Tubestage this week!  8)

Thanks for keeping up posted,

Vinnie