[steinwayjoe]

Hello, I bought a pair of Super 3s (maybe super 3Rs - not sure) from Louis way back in 2003 or possibly early 2004. Pic below (sorry, lousy picture and we are moving so it is a mess). They are fabulous and people always say things like, "Oh my God, you stereo sounds so amazing." This includes "regular" people who know little to nothing about audio equipment.

However, while the imaging is spectacular and vocals, jazz, piano, acoustic instruments... sound fantastic I do find myself wanting a little more on the low end. I have to imagine a lot has happened in the past 14 years. So, if you were to help me pick out some new Omegas under the $1500ish... where would I start?

If I stayed with the Skylan stands I have now, it looks like my two choices are Super 3i and Super 7 MK2.
Or I keep my super 3s for the office and go with the Super 3XRS?

Or, is there a sub I should consider to use with my current speakers? While I am willing to spend $1500 on new speakers, I would only want to spend under $500 for a sub.

(PS, I almost have to go with the veneers - have a woodshop and his work is amazing to look at as well as hear).


Why did this rotate my image?

[RDavidson]

You should look at the Super 3 high output monitors too.
http://omegaloudspeakers.com/super3homonitor.html

[roscoe65]

Hi Joe,

I have a pair of original Super 3's identical to yours (mine are light beech veneer).  Everything you described is true, both in describing their strengths and their weaknesses.  I can offer this:

1.  If you haven't upgraded the drivers you can swap the Fostex drivers for the latest RS5 drivers.  It is a modest cost (less than $200) and takes about 10 minutes.  It is not a subtle upgrade.  It will be more efficient, produce better highs and much more bass.

2.  The wide baffle provides better lower midrange response than the newer, narrow baffle models.  That being said, they do well with wall reinforcement.  The shallow cabinet helps with that.

3.  There are a number of subwoofers that will work really, really well with the fast RS5 drivers.  Omega subwoofers are a natural fit.  A number of us also use Rhythmik servo subwoofers that use GR Research lightweight paper driver(s).  Many people agree that stereo subwoofers are superior to a single subwoofer.

4.  Even with a subwoofer you may not find a single RS5 speaker as satisfying as you would like.  Much of what we want in bass reinforcement is actually mid to upper bass.  The RS5 driver begins rolling off slowly below 500hz, which contributes to its slightly thin sound.  Louis addresses this in some models by paralleling an additional driver ("1.5 way") below 500hz, adding the missing fullness.  The two drivers in parallel have a similar radiating area to a single 6.5" driver.  These 1.5 way speakers are in larger cabinets as well, even the small monitors.  The Super 3  HO is about 20% larger than your current speakers.

If it were me I would stick with monitor speakers.  You own an expensive set of stands already that will work with a couple models that would give you better bass response.  As RDavidson pointed out, the Super 3 HO would be about the same size as your current speakers but would offer more efficiency and better bass.  I would also consider the Compact Alnico Monitor, which is a similar size and maybe has a bit better bass than the Super 3 HO.  They are within spitting distance of each other in cost (but both a bit more than that a Super 7Mk2 Monitor).  The wide baffle of the CAM would make it look and behave very similarly to your current speakers, only better in almost every way (assuming you still have the Fostex driver).

I own a number of Omega speakers based on the RS5 and Alnico drivers, starting with the same model as yours and adding different models.  Some observations:

1.  Super 3.  I replaced the original Fostex Fe127e with the RS5.  This is hands-down the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade you could ever do.  Right out of the box with zero break-in the Omega driver smokes the Fostex in every way.  If you wanted to improve your speakers without major commitment this is where I would start.

2.  1.5way RS5.  I am testing out a 1.5 way version (unofficial - so really Outlaw) of the RS5 speaker for use as a center channel.  It really sounds like a RS5 with more bottom end and drive.  If you know you like the RS5 you will like the 1.5 way.

3.  Super Alnico Monitor.  This is the larger version of the Compact Alnico Monitor.  This is a much fuller sounding driver with better inner detail.  However, IMHO it is not as pure or extended on the top end.  But combined with your Scott 299 it would probably be killer.  It is not what I would call a driver with the deepest bass, but I can locate the rear-ported cabinet closer to the wall to fill out the low end in a smaller room.

TL;dr:  If it were my money the first thing I would do is upgrade the drivers if it hadn't been done already.  The speakers would be that much better in the office system.  Following that, if I were going to place the speakers in the traditional "audiophile" position out in the room I would probably choose a Super 3HO.  If I were placing them a bit closer to the front wall, I would probably choose the Compact Alnico Monitor.  I haven't experienced the RS7 drivers so can't offer an informed opinion on them.

[steinwayjoe]

Thanks roscoe65 and RDavidson

I am definitely going to try the upgrade in drivers. That is a great idea and I woul dnot have known. Thanks!

Not too important now, but my Skylan stands are the ones with two "piers" or "legs" - some of the speakers you guys recommended, while I'm sure they are great, look like they need beefier stands with 4 legs - such as the Super 3 HO and Compact Alcino Monitor.

FYI, we are in the midst of buying an old house including a ton of electrical work, refinishing wood floors on three floors, ripping out a back stairway to put in an extra bathroom not to mention buying rugs, furniture, lawnmowers... and I am here speaker shopping? My wife is pretty easy going, but if she knew...

[jorgen]

Turn your thinking. While you are doing all this work nobody notice a pair of speakers in the budget. And keep in mind, she doesn't know the price of the speakers and you can answer whatever you want. I have new mono amps, new riaa and new speakers. All of which cost 500 usd, at least that is what I say. No once has she checked out the reality. Like, have you got any idea of how much she pays for stuff she gets? And sound system is very good for quality of life for both of you

[RDavidson]

The speaker models mentioned don't "need" beefier stands. Louis just showcases them as such for esthetic reasons. Your current stands should function just as well. I'm using some rather small, 3 post, Atacama stands for my CAMs until I finally decide to upgrade to Skylans or the like. The Atacamas are fine for now, though they definitely don't aid esthetics. I need some Herbie's dots too. There's always something I "need."

[roscoe65]

The speaker models mentioned don't "need" beefier stands. Louis just showcases them as such for esthetic reasons. Your current stands should function just as well. I'm using some rather small, 3 post, Atacama stands for my CAMs until I finally decide to upgrade to Skylans or the like. The Atacamas are fine for now, though they definitely don't aid esthetics. I need some Herbie's dots too. There's always something I "need."

I agree.  The Atacama stands are actually pretty nice.  The Skylan stands you own are very nice for the Super 3.  I wish I had them for mine.  The Super 3's are really not that big and heavy and the the two post Skylans would be perfect.

If I were in your shoes I would simply upgrade the drivers and maybe think about a subwoofer later.  Your Super 3's are about 15% bigger than the current Super 3l's and with the wide baffle will do nicely closer to the wall to reinforce the upper bass.

However, given your original parameters of less than $1,500, more bass, and the ability to use your current stands, the Compact Alnico Monitor in Level 1 finish is a good choice as well.  It is only slightly larger than your current speakers and would be perfect with the Scott.

[steinwayjoe]

Hi Joe,

I have a pair of original Super 3's identical to yours (mine are light beech veneer).  Everything you described is true, both in describing their strengths and their weaknesses.  I can offer this:

1.  If you haven't upgraded the drivers you can swap the Fostex drivers for the latest RS5 drivers.  It is a modest cost (less than $200) and takes about 10 minutes.  It is not a subtle upgrade.  It will be more efficient, produce better highs and much more bass.

I own a number of Omega speakers based on the RS5 and Alnico drivers, starting with the same model as yours and adding different models.  Some observations:

1.  Super 3.  I replaced the original Fostex Fe127e with the RS5.  This is hands-down the best bang-for-the-buck upgrade you could ever do.  Right out of the box with zero break-in the Omega driver smokes the Fostex in every way.  If you wanted to improve your speakers without major commitment this is where I would start.
....

roscoe65, I owe you... a beer or something. You were spot on. Best audio advice I ever received. I called Louis and ordered the new RS5 drivers. They arrived last night and I actually played a little hooky from work to install them (a breeze). I realize they need some breaking in, but like you said, right out of the box it is a huge upgrade. I can't wait to see how they change after break in, but right now I am super happy and my search is over for, who knows, maybe for another 14 years! THANKS AGAIN!!! P.S. I do have Super 3Rs.

[roscoe65]

I'm glad it worked out for you.  I think I paid $160 for the drivers two or three years ago.  That's less money than most speaker cables.

The Super 3 (R has some upgraded wiring, flared port, and "R" compound) is an underappreciated model, maybe because it was phased out before the RS5 drivers.  Ironically, it is about the same size and shape as the new Compact Alnico Monitor.  Its principal shortcoming is that when you add in a pair of Skylan stands you're looking at the same price as the Super 3xrs.  I think that if you want to place it on an actual bookshelf it is the perfect model.

[steinwayjoe]

I'm glad it worked out for you.  I think I paid $160 for the drivers two or three years ago.  That's less money than most speaker cables.

The Super 3 (R has some upgraded wiring, flared port, and "R" compound) is an underappreciated model, maybe because it was phased out before the RS5 drivers.  Ironically, it is about the same size and shape as the new Compact Alnico Monitor.  Its principal shortcoming is that when you add in a pair of Skylan stands you're looking at the same price as the Super 3xrs.  I think that if you want to place it on an actual bookshelf it is the perfect model.

Yep, $160 was my cost too. I hear what you are saying about the stands, but that was so long ago for me, the cost is just... gone. I have nobody else to talk to about this, so forgive the gushing praise. With the Fostex drivers jazz, classical and acoustic music was very nice, but I always felt a little short listening to anything with some meat to it. Now anything with electric instruments, bass, drums as well as jazz, classical, acoustic.. sounds so much fuller. Soundstage is even more amazing. I'm getting plenty of bass, in some cases too much and roll it back, even with the speakers four feet from a wall. This is a whole new world of sound here. The net effect is I am going music shopping asap.

[roscoe65]

If the effect of a system upgrade is to start buying more music then it is an unequivocal success.

I understand the sunk cost aspect of the stands.  If I had the money I have in equipment right now I would make different choices, but the money is spent and by serendipity I can put together systems in two different rooms, both two-channel and HT.