kNIFE SHARPENERS

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EdRo

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kNIFE SHARPENERS
« on: 23 Mar 2017, 11:52 pm »
Anyone try one of these Wicked Edge sharpeners???
https://youtu.be/mzL41ygQG0o

tomsch

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #1 on: 24 Mar 2017, 12:02 am »
I have one and use it quite a bit for reprofiling and touch-ups with the strops that come with the Pro Packs.

nc42acc

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #2 on: 24 Mar 2017, 12:06 am »
I have the wicked edge system. Takes some practice as the learning curve is a little steep. Great results when you master it.

SET Man

Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #3 on: 24 Mar 2017, 12:39 am »
Hey!

  Hmmm... I've never seen this one before. I've seen a similar jig system one of the chef I work with bought in to work and honestly I was not impress by it.

   So, I think I'll stick with doing it the old fashion Japanese water stones (500, 1000 and 6000 + a diamond plate) But that's just me and of course use whatever works best for you  :D

Take care,
Buddy

Devil Doc

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #4 on: 24 Mar 2017, 01:21 am »
I've been teaching kids to sharpen knives and axes for more years than I care to remember. Get yourself a Norton India stone, fine and medium, and learn how to use it. If you're sharpening chisels or plane irons, then you'll need a hard Arkansas stone to go with it. Don't make this harder than it really is. Japanese water stones are nice, but they don't stay flat, are incredibly messy and are generally a pia. Just my opinion, based on many years of experience.

Doc

Rob Babcock

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #5 on: 24 Mar 2017, 01:21 am »
I haven't used it but I know the guy that makes them.  He knows his stuff. Over the last few years Clay has made a lot of refinements to the system.  My main criticism of the device is that is uses a clamp. That makes it easy and pretty foolproof but with very large knives you will have to unclamp and move it at least once. Plus the design of the clamp prevents going extremely low/sharp angles.  However, it will go down to single digit per side which is enough for all but the thinnest Japanese "lasers".  The stock abrasives/stones are not the best but there's a robust aftermarket of stones, strops and assorted abrasives.  WEPS supports the product very well and the warranty is very good.

If you want a relatively simple yet powerful and versatile sharpener it's well worth considering.

Rob Babcock

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #6 on: 24 Mar 2017, 01:25 am »
I've been teaching kids to sharpen knives and axes for more years than I care to remember. Get yourself a Norton India stone, fine and medium, and learn how to use it. If you're sharpening chisels or plane irons, then you'll need a hard Arkansas stone to go with it. Don't make this harder than it really is. Japanese water stones are nice, but they don't stay flat, are incredibly messy and are generally a pia. Just my opinion, based on many years of experience.

Doc

I have to disagree! :lol:  India stones are virtually worthless for some of the newer alloys out there- it barely scratches them.  They're also very very slow.  While they don't dish like waterstones they also aren't even remotely as fast.  And it's not really difficult to flatten a stone.  You're right- they do a good job on axes and carpenter's planes but if you're sharpening kitchen knives the India and Arkansas stones leave a lot to be desired, IMOHO. :thumb:

Devil Doc

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #7 on: 24 Mar 2017, 01:39 am »
Your first mistake is using exotic steels. Absolutely useless. They're pretty and expensive, and that's about it. You don't need that kind of thing to cut meat and vegetables. As far as chisels and plane irons go, do you know any one besides some Japanese plane maker that charges an arm and a leg for his product that makes them with exotic steels?


Doc

Rob Babcock

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #8 on: 24 Mar 2017, 04:06 am »
Well, I've been a professional chef for over 25 years so I think I have a pretty good handle on what I need to cut meat and veggies. :wink:  To be fair I suppose your average duffer that just cuts up some onions for sloppy joe once a week has different needs than a professional cook and is probably well served by Cutco, etc.  But us guys that swing a knife fifty or sixty hours a week have different demands.  One of my favorite knives is a 240mm gyuto in M390.  It will go for three months between sharpenings, something I can't say about any common, garden-variety blade steel.  For comparison used the same way I would get a week or two out of VG-10, maybe three weeks out of Aoko.

I can't comment much about planes, etc.  Dad was a carpenter but my woodworking skills are rather limited by comparison.  I know a bit about the techniques but you don't want me building your cabinets! :lol:

Devil Doc

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #9 on: 24 Mar 2017, 08:02 pm »
How many professionals do you know that use crazy, expensive, exotic knives at work? Oh, I have credentials too. My grandfather was a cooper and my dad a butcher and grocery store owner. I can make a pail and process a side of beef, all with very serviceable tools, not the most beautiful or exotic.

I have no problem with someone buying conversation pieces, but a tool is a tool. It needs to be utilitarian and work without a great deal of aggravation and last a good amount of time. A  $100 knife, a steel, and simple whet stones will do that.

I use my Henckels every day, three times a day and they only see a stone once a year. Perhaps you should learn to use a steel.

Doc












« Last Edit: 24 Mar 2017, 09:49 pm by Devil Doc »

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #10 on: 24 Mar 2017, 08:19 pm »
Good conversation. "Subscribed".
Looking forward to sitting on the sidelines and listening to y'all hash it out!   :thumb:

SoCalWJS

Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #11 on: 24 Mar 2017, 09:53 pm »
.....back to the topic at hand. I don't have the Wicked Edge system, but I've heard good things. I have the EdgePro Apex, which I love. If I ever replace it, I would be looking at something like this:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200431964_200431964?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Power%20Tools%20%3E%20Sharpeners%20%2B%20Accessories%20%3E%20Blade%20Sharpeners&utm_campaign=Work%20Sharp&utm_content=156115&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5o9YHrdeqWPzO414-t3G2CadafYMK8nZy1xu_gWb2VLhoC_XPw_wcB

There ARE advantages to a beveled edges.

And as far as professional Chefs and knives go, I have yet to deal with a Chef that DIDN'T have a favorite knife made of exotics. If they deal with Fish (sushi), most or ALL of their knoves are.

Rob Babcock

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #12 on: 25 Mar 2017, 02:00 am »
How many professionals do you know that use crazy, expensive, exotic knives at work? Oh, I have credentials too. My grandfather was a cooper and my dad a butcher and grocery store owner. I can make a pail and process a side of beef, all with very serviceable tools, not the most beautiful or exotic.

I have no problem with someone buying conversation pieces, but a tool is a tool. It needs to be utilitarian and work without a great deal of aggravation and last a good amount of time. A  $100 knife, a steel, and simple whet stones will do that.

I use my Henckels every day, three times a day and they only see a stone once a year. Perhaps you should learn to use a steel.

Doc

I know, conservatively speaking, dozens of other chefs that use high quality knives.  A common 'steel' is essentially a file; fine for entry level knives like Henckels and Wusthofs but not appropriate for higher end cutlery and harder steels.  Again, in at least ten years of sharpening professionally as a side gig I've sharpened (conservatively) about a thousand knives ranging from $800 Nubatamas (mine) to $12 cheapies, and I didn't use any kind of oil stone for any of them.  On the lower stuff from Forschner to Henckels I usually use a belt grinder.  I don't bother with sharpening by hand unless a knife is worth my time and effort.

I suppose it depends where you draw the line and start calling a steel "exotic". Years ago VG-10 was considered "Supersteel".  Now it's entry level for Japanese knives.  There are very good alloys that simply do a better job than the lower end stuff you see in most German knives and Wal-Mart stuff.  By exotic I don't always mean new and high tech- some of the best steel is based on older types.  Hitachi Blue Paper and White Paper is superb, as is Super Aogami, and they've been around for awhile.  But you don't usually see them in knives made outside of Japan so in that sense they're still "exotic" in a way.

If all I did was cut up cows I could use a twenty dollar knife and not complain.  But I'm not cutting Quarter Pounders in half, I'm doing intricate food prep and butcher of seafood.  The biggest problem I have with the German knives are that they're thick as an axe.  Nearly every knife in my kit is 2mm at the choil or less.

I really don't care what you use- knock yourself with my blessing.  But don't confuse you not having a use for something with it having no use.  I guarantee that if you walk into the kitchen in the best restaurants in your market you're going to see some higher end cutlery unless the best place near you is Red Lobster. :wink:

Rob Babcock

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #13 on: 25 Mar 2017, 02:01 am »
.....back to the topic at hand. I don't have the Wicked Edge system, but I've heard good things. I have the EdgePro Apex, which I love. If I ever replace it, I would be looking at something like this:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200431964_200431964?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Power%20Tools%20%3E%20Sharpeners%20%2B%20Accessories%20%3E%20Blade%20Sharpeners&utm_campaign=Work%20Sharp&utm_content=156115&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5o9YHrdeqWPzO414-t3G2CadafYMK8nZy1xu_gWb2VLhoC_XPw_wcB


If you go with a WS, get the Ken Onion version.  It's a lot nicer for not a lot more money.

Rob Babcock

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #14 on: 25 Mar 2017, 02:15 am »
I guess I should also point out that when you sharpen knives for money you need to be able to sharpen whatever you get.  If someone brings in a rusty old Sab there's no problem- anything can sharpen that.  But if someone brings in a knife made of ZDP-189, HAP40 or high zoot Carpenter steel I need to have abrasives that can cut the carbides (that can be between 67 RC and the lower end of the Moh's Scale).  If for no other reason it's prudent for me to have Atoma plates and stones like the Shapton GlassStones that can cut virtually anything out there.  Plus CBN, poly & mono diamonds, etc for polishing.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #15 on: 30 May 2017, 12:13 am »
*Bump*
So it seems S Clark knows a thing or two about sharpening a knife.
I've also found out that he's equally good at spending other peoples money.  :lol:

Under his direction, advice, and mentoring, I'm now the proud owner of a sharpening system.
I've got an Edge-Pro Apex 1, with stones in the following grits:
220 - 400 - 1000 - 3000 - 5000
I've successfully sharpened a couple of my Henckels and some Old Hickory blades to 5k.
Gotta say, that I've never cut a tomato like that before!  :o  :lol:

My next purchase, once another infusion of expendable cash comes in, I'll be shopping for some Japanese blades.

In the mean time, I'll keep playing with my "Old Hickory" and Henckels.  :thumb:
Here's the blade porn.


Tyson

Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #16 on: 30 May 2017, 01:18 am »
I have a wicked edge system - it's very nice but be careful after you sharpen your knives.  A super-sharp knife will go through a finger as easily as a tomato. 

goskers

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #17 on: 30 May 2017, 01:27 am »
I also have an Edge Pro Apex with even more wet stones.  I decided that for as infrequently as I will be sharpening knives at home that the odds of me becoming really good sharpening freehand is unlikely.  The Apex does a fine job with a small amount of practice.

Brettio

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #18 on: 30 May 2017, 01:40 am »
Edge Pro Apex owner here too. It sharpens my knives perfectly for my needs and it's easy to use.  When it's not in use, which is most of the time, it stores neatly and easily.

S Clark

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Re: kNIFE SHARPENERS
« Reply #19 on: 30 May 2017, 03:30 am »
Glad that the sharpening is going well.  Edge Pro makes it hard to screw up.
Next step will be actual angle measurement via your cell phone app or buying an Angle Cube, then comes the finer stone, the leather and diamond paste, a better knife, another better knife, $$$. 
And to say that I know a thing or two is about right, I know a couple of tips, but Rob is the Knife Edge Zen Master whose knowledge knows no bounds.   :thumb: