[Pez]

I didn't post a review, but here's the short and sweet. It made a difference, but not enough to constitute buying the stuff opening my equipment, painting it on etc.  I found it was a smoother sounding result, but if my system does one thing well already it's smoothness. If you want to squeeze that extra bit of velvet out of your system try isolation and cables first, tubolator second. JMHO

[ABEX]

Real good guys.You have managed to really put a big   in my mind.  

Nathan ,I wonder what you are using for speaker's and a system?

For myself I am thinking of getting a normal stock version before sending mine back just to see what difference I am hearing.

I will reiterate a point I made to the unbeliever's at AA where I go to haggle over non issues and where people would not believe in any change."System's seem to be more sensitive then other's depending on speaker's and what their source components are!"

This tube-u-lator stuff is going to far if you ask me.There must be an effect if 4 people could hear a diff ,but to what extent is the question?

Nathan says he did not hear or it was very slight improvement to which  I would  say is fine.Being into audio for 27yrs. now I believe that circuit design and components make a majority of a difference ,more than a paste or whatever anyways.

At present I am wrestling with weather there is diferences that can be present with cryo'd cables which is enough to deal with,but I am still thinking of trying the paste anyways.

[Tyson]

I figure the effect is similar to using isolation feet or spikes, or whatever with your gear.  The tube-o-lator would seem to just dampen vibrations “at the source”, the D/A chip or output chip, etc, and logically would seem to give many of the same benefits as using other types of vibration control.

[Jay S]

System transparency and listener perception are both at play here.  Each of us also places a different value on a given improvement in sound quality.  I have heard of positive results from 2 separate trials of Tube-o-lator, so I am inclined to try it myself.  

Also, keep in mind that the performance of a system can be the sum of many small improvements.

[Rocket]

hello,

most of the time with these types of products your system has to be of relatively high quality to hear any differences.  also the recordings that you use must be good quality.

i really like my rock recordings, however they just don't reveal inner nuances of music compared to be quality recordings.

btw i agree with a previous post i post most of my money into components.

regards

rod

[Jay S]

I agree that pop/rock recordings don't have as many nuances to reveal as maybe jazz or classical.  Where I think products like Tubeolator will help is that they can make the typical pop/rock recording more listenable.

[Mathew_M]

I didn't go back and check but wasn't sibilance improved upon by the tubelator (in the DAM shootout)?  I had a sibilance problem that mostly went away when I added a pair of Empirical audio holosonics to the pre/amp.  It's still there minorly because my source IC's aren't the best (actually they're pretty damn good since they didn't cost me a penny) but I believe it is the bullet plugs that are making the difference here.   Which brings me to the tubelator:  If it is said to improve something such as sibilance in a system (sibilance is very annoying) and it does then it is definately worth it.  If you're system sounds good w/o it then I would think it would be that last, cherry on top upgrade thing.  Didn't Tyson say that the lube could be pasted elsewhere for improvement, such as the Le Amps?  What about the output stage on a tube cdp (Jolida cdp)?

[Wayne1]

MatthewM,

I have found that harsh, leading edge, transients are "mellowed" out with the use of the lacquer. We did find the sibilants were reduced in the Norah Jones track we played.

It is NOT a "paste" or a "lube" It is a slightly thickened, lacquer-like, liquid. It is lightly applied with a q-tip.

It is suggested for use on the D/A convertor chips and opamps. It is suggested that it be used mostly for front-end gear.

I have no idea how it would work on the chip used in the LeAmp. Mr Altmann has said that it may change the sound too much when used on output devices in certain amps. He does not elaborate.

I am not at all familiar with the circuitry of the Jolida CD players. If it is similar to the nOrh CD-1 in it just uses the tube stage as a buffer and op-amps to do most of the work, then the Tube-O-Lator may work just fine.

I have found that Bullet Plugs do reduce "glare" in interconnects. I had a fairly bad sibilance problem with my HT that was reduced when I changed my interconnects from an open, braided design to a shielded, twisted pair.

[Beezer]

Another product which operates on the same principle of controlling resonances at the component part level are Marigo Audio Lab VTS Tuning Dots :  http://marigoaudio.com/absolute2.htm

Has anyone tried these out with positive results?  Conceptually it makes some sense to me and one wouldn't have to slather goop over the component innards.

Beez

[Wayne1]

Beez,

One does NOT "slather goop" all over the place.

One lightly paints the surface of an IC. You just need a light coating to affect the sound, in my experience.

The dots and blu-tack and mortite all work to dampen vibrations from outside the device. The laquer works, IMHO, to dampen INTERNAL micro vibrations caused by all the little junctions inside the hunk of silicone changing state from on to off. I could be completely wrong on this, but it is a theory that makes sense to me

[Hantra]

The laquer works, IMHO, to dampen INTERNAL micro vibrations caused by all the little junctions inside the hunk of silicone changing state from on to off. I could be completely wrong on this, but it is a theory that makes sense to me

It makes sense to me too man. . .  Too often, people forget about internally generated vibration, and just focus on something they can't do anything about.  I guess that's just an audiophile way to approach it.  hehe

B

[doug s.]

i don't see how this laquer can dampen internal wibrations - aren't the chips plastic?  how can the stuff get absorbed *inside* the plastic?

re: nathan's experiences, i'd suspect a modded di/o would likely highlight any changes this product produces, more than a stock di/o, from my experiences with my di/o when stock, compared to when i modded it.  the modded wersion is just so much better, & more revealing, it could well be possible that any benefits of damping op-amps & digital chips could be masked by other deficiencies of a stock di/o.

doug s.

[Hantra]

i don't see how this laquer can dampen internal wibrations - aren't the chips plastic? how can the stuff get absorbed *inside* the plastic?

I am not sure that you are on the right track with this theory.  The lacquer undoutably changes the resonant characteristic of the IC.  It doesn't have to damp it per se.  When you add something elastic to the top of a chip like Blu-Tak, you are changing the resonant characteristics of an IC, but you are also inhbiting the internal vibrations from getting out.  They are merely bounced back into the chip rather nastily.  

The lacquer probably makes the chip vibrate in a more linear fashion, and at different frequencies than the untreated chip.  I have found that this is also the case with wood when applying lacuer, or finish.

B

[nathanm]

Clearly the biggest sin in the audiophile world is to say you did not hear a difference.  Apparently people would rather hear "this product is phenomenal!" or "this product ruined the music totally with awful grunge!"  God forbid you should say it did nothing or very little.  Then gee, something must be wrong with that guy's system!  Something must be wrong with his hearing!  He did the test totally wrong!  The music he used is not capable of revealing differences!  The switch on the amp screwed up the whole test! Surely such and such product MUST make a difference!

Go buy this stuff and apply it to YOUR gear and see if you hear anything.  Or if you want, anyone is more than welcome to come over to my place to hear the exact same setup.  Send me a PM and I'll give you directions!  I would recommend doing so before you bust my chops over my methods or any other hair-splitting audiophile nervosa details.  Cause I looked all around the room last night, and I didn't see any of you naysayers there.

Funny how nobody runs around like a chicken with its head cut off, trying to explain away the findings when someone posts a positve, glowing review.  Funny how there are no questions or accusations directed at the reviewer or his system then.  Write a nice positive review and here comes everyone patting you on the back, "Great job Joe, good review!"  But say, "Hmmm, I really didn't think it did much" and you are immediately suspect and your gear called into question.

It's bullshit hypocrisy and you all know it.

Anyway, last night I switched over to my Norh 3.0s since I blew up the Prisms (oops!) and both DACs were sounding great.  The speaker change was very easily noticeable.  The 3.0s imaging in the new room was very good.  I really like this little speaker.  I used an actual digital cable, no splitters! Boy what a HUGE improvement... No just kidding.  It sounded really good I thought.  But you shouldn't believe anything I say, because of course my system is crap and the CDs of choice did not pass through committee.  Obviously the Tube-O-Lator DAC is supremely better and everything else is just not letting me hear it.  Oh and I better buy me some  some annointed jazz CDs, obviously they are the only ones holy enough to make comparisons possible. Lord knows the unamplified, all-acoustic folk music I was listening to by Pentangle doesn't count.

[doug s.]

hey nate, chill - i feel yer pain!     seriously, i don't take any issues at all w/yer results, & i also anticipated the backlash ya got.   i happen to disagree w/all those naysayers - i like *my* theory best!    

seriously, i tink ya owe it to yourself to hear a modded di/o, if yure using a stock wersion.  a lot smoother *and* more resolving of detail, while throwing a better soundstage.  don't get me wrong - i liked my stock di/o - best digital i'd heard in my system, & 1st time i actually *liked* redbook cd.  i liked it enuff to tear into it & do the upgrades everyone was yapping about.  and, they're definitely worth it.

b, regarding your theories about differing resonant characteristics, well, i'm sure that laquer vs putty will affect different things in different manners, but i doubt anyone knows for sure exactly what's happening here on this small a scale.  it's yust as likely as not, that blu-tac could absorb internal wibrations, preventing them from being "nastily bounced around" inside the chip.  also likely that a clear laquer, from a paint store, may have yust as much benefit as the tube-o-lator stuff, or blu-tac.  or, perhaps one of these three choices mite have the best efect depending on which chip, which equipment, etc...  no one knows for sure.  even the tube-o-lator vendor admits as much.  he's not sure himself, why it works, or whether it would be beneficial, or even harmful, in some applications...

doug s.

[JoshK]

I hear ya Nate.  There is quite a bit of audio snobbery even here in audiocircle not to name any names.   There is tons of childishness as well with regards to some want to think they have the best system, the best components, whatever and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid, deaf or deluided.  Actually then need to pull that something out of somewhere.

Don't sweat it, these are precisely the people who's opinions mean squat. There are plenty of people hear who enjoy audio and are far more mature.

[Kishore]

Any comparison/listening is system specific. So

a. Nathan tested in DACs in his system. If he were to choose between 2 DACs clearly he would go for cheaper one    The insinuation that his system is crap is crap   . As far as his testing is concerned I donot think cables from same company would sound radically different..however if Nathan wants he can improve his comparo by getting someone to switch DACs as Tyson suggested. Dunno why he should be slammed

b. Many of us (at least me) do NOT concentrate, focus, brood, think, listen to minute details & be ANAL when we listen. Have the same attitude towards comparisons (okie maybe concentrate a bit) coz ultimately whatever product you end up with- you will be in a relaxed setting.  I have been guilty of this in my previous comparo with with Camelot DAC and Modded DIO. I did all of above (rather focussed on finding a difference) and later realized that that is not my listening behaviour in normal setting. The differences were there but I could be happy with either one in my normal listening behaviour. I have found differences with other products which made startling difference you cannot ignore-and then the $$/features play out  

and

c. Our ears/brains are unique. Appreciate them and enjoy audio!

My $0.02

Cheers,
Kishore

[Jig_Anon]

Hello all, Obviously new to the site - have been lurking for a while however to get the tone of the site.  Really like the fairly simple but yet colorful interface.  Standard greetings asdie - I wanted to pose a couple questions regarding the "goop."  I am a man of science and at the same time a man of personal taste.  I have recently purchased some Norh Prism 4.0's and I am running them on my previously purchased NAD T700 series amp ( theatre stuff ).  I am looking to improve my stuff as time goes on - and thus my curiosity with the art.  Some of the stuff you all suggest has me bewildered.

This whole discussion is very interesting - I have a big sticking point before I buy into it - why is it not possible to measure with some means the change?  It should be a simple thing to do.  I have a great understanding of component impact on quality but the application of some sort of vibration dampener on a purely electrical component has me at a loss.  The physics just do not make sense to me.  A capacitor with a lower ESR I can understand - a loosely  wound coil vibrating I can understand.  Paint on the top of a component - I need some understanding.  

Next on my todo list: New Amplifier - old one for HT and one for Music.

[Tyson]

I think the point that has been overlooked here is that this is a "tweak", and does offer some improvement, but not as much as a speaker or amp or even an IC upgrade would offer.  These tweaks are good to focus on only after you have made the "big" improvements to the rest of the system.  After you are happy with the quality and sound of your system, tweaks help to fine tune it.  So it's a question of priority.  If Nathan were looking to improve the sound of his system, the tube-o-lator would not be the top of my list for recommendations.

And, if you can't hear a difference, then there's no reason to keep it, end of story.

[ABEX]

Jig
I had the same question about mesureing the effect of vibration on the output to see what change had ocurred.Can't remember what was said about it.

The measurement would have to be very expensive and sensitive to the effect I assume.Alot of effects on audio equiptment is hard to validate as in the difference in cables being one of them.If you look on other bb's you will see the diverse opinion's about it.

If the Laquor is effective when damping internal Vibration then there must be merit to the stuff.I wonder if another Tweek I have heard is just as effective,using Super Glue.Not willing to try it but it had been mentioned and tried elsewhere.Maybe the stuff has a rubber or DE-Ionization property.

http://www.audiotweaks.com/collection_descend.htm

There is a world of tweeks that are used in audio.You might spend a year to see what ,why and if some of those work.