[Chris Allinson]

Got to relive my 1986/90 Manta Electronics Group (& Manta Sound) studio sound experience this month – was GM of Manta Electronics Group (1986-90), sister company to Manta Sound. We supplied studio equipment and engineered/built the MEG studio monitors.

Bought a pair of sequential serial number, mint cabinet classic 1982 Energy 22 Pro Monitors* (arguably the best consumer Hi-Fi speaker ever made!) in 2014 with O/C (open circuit) tweeter voice coils. Had an e-mail exchange that year with a guy out East (Halifax) who rebuilds the Energy tweeters and he offered information: pretty well all the 22’s tweeter's fluid dries out making the tweeters sound progressively harsh until failure: O/C voice coil due to overheating! He wanted $400/pair to rebuild mine and prognosis was 15/20 years to re-failure? Shelved the 22's until remembered from my studio equipment supply MEG days that the near field mid 80's Auratone T-6 (not the 5C) used an Audax tweeter (have a pair of T-6’s in my stereo setup here). Manta Sound in Toronto had pairs of T-6's in all 5 control rooms as the T-6 closely matched the MEG studio main-monitor characteristics (Producer, Jack Richardson - Guess Who: ‘American Woman’ - used the Manta Sound rooms because of the monitors, further, Jack directed the purchase of MEG monitors for the 3 control rooms at Fanshawe College in London, ON when he joined their MAI program as producer/instructor).

Looking for a 22’s solution, I went through the Audax tweeter line and came upon the TW034X0 mid-tweeter: http://solen.ca/wp-content/uploads/tw034x0.pdf The 22’s have a crossover of 1500Hz (most crossovers are in the 2000-3000Hz range), so bought a pair of the Audax from Solen in Quebec, installed and did an A/B with my Auratone T-6's: almost spot on mid/high comparison, but a much extended bottom end on the 22's*. Required changing the connectors only as the plate diameter of the Audax is within 1/4" of the 22 tweeter.

•   Verified the 22’s from 28Hz to 20KHz as essentially flat (with sweeps & tones) on my spl meter and was very pleased with results – suggest these tracks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-h6MoF7HLA&list=RD51EdVaSJiss&index=3 & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFo2wvQEm_s&list=RD51EdVaSJiss&index=2 At MEG/Manta Sound we used ‘Steely Dan: Babylon Sisters’ and ‘Bruce Cockburn: Hills of Morning’ from CD as references for our studio setup technicians. Both tracks sound exceptional on the 22’s!

I may not have an original pair of 22 Pro Monitors now (chasing rebuilt tweeters, doomed to fail, seems a lost cause to me?) but do have 22's that match the 1980's ‘reference’ in near field 'accurate' studio-monitors, i.e. you could do studio mixes now on my 22’s!”

[FullRangeMan]

Welcome Chris

[ArthurDent]

Greetings & Welcome to AC Chris   

[Chris Allinson]

Was Chris A over a decade ago on AudioCircle - forgot my login, duh.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20192.0

[jarcher]

Welcome. Ran a pair of Energy Pro 22's for close to two decades from college, over two overseas moves & one US move.  Blew a tweeter in college (used for a school party) & replaced it with an original from Energy for what was then the princely sum of $150.  Remember that thing had quite a substantial magnet. Finally sold them about 5 years back to my hi fi repair man, who as far as I know, still has them.  SO.......if you ever need parts - he might be tempted to sell the pair or part them out.....Drivers were in good shape but the cabinets had some knicks. I remember those speakers did horns particularly well (sax, etc) & had a great bottom end. Not the ultimate in top end air or soundstage though.  They were meant of course of monitoring work, so not intended to be highly "flavored".

[Chris Allinson]

Thanks for the welcome, back, you guys. Always had interesting exchanges on AudioCircle.

The 22's tweets were always very fragile and not really usable for other than monitoring as the dispersion was so high - made them outstanding retail space Hi-Fi speakers and as you say the bass was peerless, and arguably still is in a class of it's own? Measured 28Hz on mine and they produced down to 20Hz.

My studio experience with Audax tweeters: Auratone T-6 near field, and an Audax mid in the 3 way MEG Jr mains, led me to the Audax tweeter upgrade on the 22's - the top end air and sound stage is there now in the 22's and could use them as small studio mains monitors*. Suggest get yours back if you can and upgrade.

* the Audax sensitivity is 93dB and the 22's are 86dB so may need a 3/5dB tweeter pad - am still working on that but not convinced yet, from a series of measurements? We installed wire wound pots in the mid & tweeter lines on the MEG Jr's as we had re-engineered to incorporate a built-in 3 way passive crossover on what was originally a bi-amped active crossover system driving the MEG Jr's.

Totally impressed with this 3 track quartet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkLmsh_UCeA 7:50 in.

Regards, Chris A

[Bemopti123]

1986, in the shadows of the former Twin Towers in Lower Manhattan, I heard a pair of Energy Connoisseur Reference 22s, build in pedestals, priced between 1800-4000 depending of the finish.  They were driven by a SUMO Andromeda III mosfet amp.  The sound was nearly identical as a pair of Kappa 9s, 6 feet tall monsters.  Both were amazing sounding speakers.  Took the Kappa 9s home and are currently doing their duties at mom's place in Atlanta.  But, if I had to do it again, I would have taken the Reference 22s in a jiffy.  Great sounding speakers.  The Energy of day is just a shadow of its former self.  All their speakers are just mass marketed low quality stuff.  Sad.   

[Doublej]

You can thank Winslow Burhoe for these. They were his design.

[Chris Allinson]

Agree, there was some outstanding stuff on offer back in the 80's and looked for a pair of the Connoisseur 22's for a decade or so, on & off, in the 90's  - am an 80's digital guy as we distributed AMS Digital (Burnley, UK) at MEG throughout Canada - we sold to all commercial studios during that era (including Bryan Adams & Little Mountain Sound (Bob Rock, Metallica: Enter Sandman) in Vancouver): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lhE1upzemU & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GMd1f-3ptc Peter Gabriel even listed an AMS credit on his 'So' Album. Still have a pair of the MEG Jr's here in storage with a Bryston 4B (need a space to air studio monitors that mixed in the mid 90dB spl all day!). The dual 15" JBL woofer Manta Sound Studios MEG mains could cause a chest injury at 110dB in the control room! Have loved my Auratone T-6's/Bryston 2B-LP for 14 years here, the Audax 22's are an upgrade.

Regards, Chris A

[Chris Allinson]

Winslow certainly achieved something almost magical with the bottom end on the 22's.

[Phil A]

Welcome!

[maxima95]

I have a pair of Reference Connoisseurs with working woofers and tweeters.  I have had to purchase the tweeters because the guy in Canada apparently does not rebuild them any more.  The originals are long gone.

I have been looking for an alternative tweeter.  The stated sensitivity of the 22's is 86 db.  Accordingly, I have been trying to find out what the sensitivity of the original tweeter was and/or, how much tweeter attenuation is in the crossover.  I think the original tweeter was 8 ohms.

I have asked about this in some forums, but have not gotten a reply.

[Bemopti123]

I have a pair of Reference Connoisseurs with working woofers and tweeters.  I have had to purchase the tweeters because the guy in Canada apparently does not rebuild them any more.  The originals are long gone.

I have been looking for an alternative tweeter.  The stated sensitivity of the 22's is 86 db.  Accordingly, I have been trying to find out what the sensitivity of the original tweeter was and/or, how much tweeter attenuation is in the crossover.  I think the original tweeter was 8 ohms.

I have asked about this in some forums, but have not gotten a reply.

With that was stated here....at least there is a tweeter replacement....If some loudspeaker guru here can work his magic on the crossover...I pretty much bet that the newer designed Energy 22 would sound stellar. 

[maxima95]

The Audax TW034X0 mid-tweeter has a sensitivity of 93 db.  I am not sure there is 6 or 7 db of tweeter attenuation in the crossover, to match the stated overall sensitivity of 86 db.

I was looking for a tweeter that I could drop in without altering the crossover.   If the crossover is altered, there are a few that could be used.

[Chris Allinson]

The guy in Halifax just offered a pair of refurbished 22's tweeters on eBay: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/142258564322?ul_noapp=true Looks like he got no bids? And from here: http://www.abitech.ca/ he is still in the tweeter rebuild business (a couple of years ago he offered to rebuild my O/C voice coil tweeters for $400/pair. That said, I had to take the position with my 22 Pro Monitors that 'chasing rebuilt tweeters, doomed to fail, seems a lost cause to me?' So bought and installed a pair of Audax mid tweeters as they were the right impedance: 8 ohms and had the right crossover: 1500Hz - http://solen.ca/wp-content/uploads/tw034x0.pdf They sound great and while maybe a tad hot, have yet to determine if I need to drop the level 3dB or so into the Audax? Don't forget that 93dB sensitivity does get impacted by a passive crossover - if the Audax sensitivity was 86dB or less I would be in trouble.

[Chris Allinson]

In passing, Speakerholic has addressed the Energy 22 tweeter issue for some years now: http://speakerholic.blogspot.ca/2013/11/another-energy-22-option.html* & http://speakerholic.blogspot.ca/2013/11/energy-22-tweeter-replacement.html & http://speakerholic.blogspot.ca/2013/04/energy-22-speakers.html

* went with Audax as had several years experience with their mids & tweeters in near field and mains studio monitor applications in the 80's.

Regards, Chris A

[Chris Allinson]

maxima95 - no need to touch the 22's crossover as compatible with the Audax TW034X0. Have not decided yet but would simply use a T-pad on the tweeter: http://www.parts-express.com/speaker-l-pad-attenuator-100w-mono-1-shaft-8-ohm--260-265 Or something similar?

[FullRangeMan]

Totally impressed with this 3 track quartet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkLmsh_UCeA 7:50 in.

Regards, Chris A

What is the annoying hi pitch in this video?

[Chris Allinson]

The opening track is Alan Taylor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFo2wvQEm_s and the tone deliberate of course. Perhaps you need to try another DAC if yours does not resolve? Use a 2 year old Asus i7 laptop as the 24 bit DAC is superb on SACD, HQ-FLAC, etc., recordings.

[maxima95]

ChrisA - I am aware that the crossover has attenuation.  The 22 woofer sensitivity is approx. 86 db and the tweeter was shelved down to match.  How much attenuation is the question (as stated in my post of Yesterday, 9:33 pm).

Tweeters with a sensitivity of around 93 db are a little too hot IMO. I believe one of them in Speakerholic was 92.6 db.

Thank you for the prompt on the guy in Canada.   I sent him an email and he responded. 

He rebuilt a few tweeters for me a while back.  Around 3 years ago I sent him several emails and received no response.  Some forum posts said he did not do this any more.  I'm glad to see he is available.