[ajzepp]

One more quick post for tonight...

I've been running a Butler 5150 (and also had a Butler 2250 in biamp configuration for a while) with my 3.6s since these Maggie monsters came into my life back in 2009. I've sang the praises of this combo time and time again. Well, the Butler just had it's 10th bday, so I wanted to send it back to Mr Butler to say hello, and to undergo the upgrade/bias package that they offer. The Butler ended up being away a bit longer than I expected, so in the meantime I happened to come across an Emotiva amp that looked interesting. I've always wanted to find an inexpensive amp to have as a back up, or to use on the surrounds if I ever wnated to bi-amp with the Butler again.

Well, to make a long story short, I picked up an Emotiva BasX 150(wpc) amp off Amazon. It was on sale for $320. It has a nice robust power supply and doubles down into 4ohms at 300wpc. I cant even begin to tell you how pleased and Impressed I am with this thing. It's built like a tank, and it drives the 3.6s just beautifully.

If anyone is looking for a budget-friendly amp to power some current-loving Maggies, my first experience with Emotiva tells me these amps are a GREAT pairing. 

[johnto]

Hopefully this new generation of Emotiva amp will work out great for you. I had the opposite experience with a pair of XPA1L mono blocks. Everything was fine for the first year or so then the amps experienced one failure after the other leading to many returns to the factory for repair . None of the repairs worked and every 3 months or so the same thing happened amp shut down. This was with a pair of Maggie 1.7s.
I have since moved on to a Paradound Halo 2.1 which has shown a dramatic improvement on everything from musical pace to soundstage.

[SwamisCat]

I concur.

I have two sets of Maggies.in my large room I have the 3.7i. In my smaller room I have a 25 year old set of IIIA's. I have two amps, a more expensive Pass Labs 250.5 and a substantially more affordable pair of Emotiva XPA1 monoblocks.  I switch back and forth between amps fairly regularly.

The differences between the amps are extremely small, with the biggest single difference being the clearly superior bass control of the Emotivas (especially if I use my DWM panels, which takes them down yo a two ohm load). And I have found the Emotivas (and the Pass) to be extremely reliable.

Both amps are great. I think my favorite amp so far was the PS Audio BHK 300 monos.  Very tubelike top end (but still not the bass control and authority of the Emotiva). I couldn't afford the BHK though.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Very interesting that you find the Emotiva's to have better bass control than the Pass X250.5's.  I own a pair of 1.6's and drove them with a Parasound A21 amp that had great bass control, only to be greatly bested by my Pass X250 ( and the Parasound specs out better than the Pass in Dampening and Slew Rate by a wide margin which only goes to show that spec's aren't everything).  I was using a Pass X1 preamp and jumped up to a BAT VK51se which offered much better bass control and musicality than the X1

[SwamisCat]

Yeah, and dont get me wrong, the Pass has very good bass control, but the sheer power and control of the Emotivas really shines.

That said, I use the Pass with my newer speakers and the Emotiva with the older ones. My argument is in no way that I prefer the Emotiva, just that it is a great amp for the money.

[josh358]

I compared an A-21 to an XPA-2 on my Tympani IVA's, both running full range and on the woofer panels only. In both cases, the A-21 proved the better amp, but I'd describe the differences as fairly subtle and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the XPA to someone on a budget (assuming it doesn't blow up -- mine never did, anyway).

Now considering what to buy for midrange and tweeter amps. I'll be replacing the original midrange with super-efficient Neo 8's so power isn't an issue. The 250.5 is at the top of my list and I'd be curious to know how it compares to the A-21 in the mids and highs. I have one friend who sold his Passes and replaced them with A-21's because the difference was so subtle . . .

[twitch54]

That's great to hear, kinda reminds me of Adcom back in the day ........

[SwamisCat]

Just to clarify, I also have an old set of Emotiva XPA-100s.  These are the monoblock version of the XPA 2. The XPA 1 is substantially more powerful. But the 100s sound pretty darn good to me too. I've never heard an XPA2.

In bass control from best to less than best (but still quite good) I would rate them XPA 1, Pass 250.5, XPA 100. In overall preference, I still prefer the Pass, but like Josh mentions, the differences are REAL subtle. To put it in perspective there is 10X more change by seriously adjusting the location or toe in of Maggies than there is in moving from the Emotiva to the Pass. As I probably mentioned before, the time I spent with the PS Audio BHK 300 was the most clear difference, and that is because it uses tubes and sounds like it.

For me, set up and location are the overwhelming issue with Maggies, assuming you have sufficient power.  I would rather have my Maggies well out in the room with the inexpensive but powerful Emotiva amps than have them near a FW with a mega priced amp.

One man's opinion. Not that I would turn down a BHK 300 if someone wants to offer me one for free.

[josh358]

Heh, yes, it's true, moving the Maggies swamps the difference between amplifiers. Of course, that doesn't keep you from wanting something cool when you've heard it.

[stustan]

I have a dedicated room for Music and Home Theater anchored by an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 that drives my 1.7's as LR's.  An Emotiva XPA-5 that drives the center channel CC5/DWM combo and MC-1's as surrounds .  A Rythmik F12 sub rounds out the bottom.  An Emotiva XMC-1 serves as my processor.  Sources are an Oppo BDP-103, cable and a Sony PS4 for gaming.  Getting ready to upgrade to 4K visuals.

The system is used at least three hours a day .... every day.  Absolutely no failures or issues with any of the components.  Absolutely heavenly sounding ..... and then some!!!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I compared an A-21 to an XPA-2 on my Tympani IVA's, both running full range and on the woofer panels only. In both cases, the A-21 proved the better amp, but I'd describe the differences as fairly subtle and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the XPA to someone on a budget (assuming it doesn't blow up -- mine never did, anyway).

Now considering what to buy for midrange and tweeter amps. I'll be replacing the original midrange with super-efficient Neo 8's so power isn't an issue. The 250.5 is at the top of my list and I'd be curious to know how it compares to the A-21 in the mids and highs. I have one friend who sold his Passes and replaced them with A-21's because the difference was so subtle . . .

I can tell you owning both a Pass X250 and a Parsound A21 that the amps are worlds apart with the X250 being the much better amp.  The Pass is more dynamic, has much deeper and punchier bass.  It is more musical. There is more air and transparency with the Pass.  The sound stage is deeper and wider.  The A21 has a bit of grain and the Pass has none.  The Pass sounds more natural and organic.

Don't get me wrong, the A21 is a great amp and I still own it and love it in another system paired with PSB speakers and a Pass DIY B1 preamp.  Bass is still powerful and very controlled, maybe a bit more controlled than the Pass but bass sounds much better with the Pass.  The Pass seems better able to unleash and deliver its power and it has tremendous slam.  Drum hits and kicks are uncannily real. The thing that the A21 does better is in its attack on the leading edges of guitar notes, stings and piano. It is more crisp but it may be more artificial.  The A21 also has a bit more sparkle in the upper frequencies but it can be fatiguing with Maggies.  Not so with the X250. 

Now I have not personally heard the X250.5 which is supposed to be more tube like and musical sounding with more air and transparency compared to the older X250 from what I have read.  Eventually I will upgrade to the 250.5 or the fabulous 250.8.

I would like to know what preamp and music source your friend is using with his A21.  It may be holding both amps back.  I used an AVA Ultra hybrid preamp then a Pass X1 and eventually a BAT VK51se preamp.  Each was much better with the Pass.  My DAC is a Luxman DA-06.

My advice, go with the Pass.  I would have sold my Pass a long time ago if the A21 sounded better.

[josh358]

I can tell you owning both a Pass X250 and a Parsound A21 that the amps are worlds apart with the X250 being the much better amp.  The Pass is more dynamic, has much deeper and punchier bass.  It is more musical. There is more air and transparency with the Pass.  The sound stage is deeper and wider.  The A21 has a bit of grain and the Pass has none.  The Pass sounds more natural and organic.

Don't get me wrong, the A21 is a great amp and I still own it and love it in another system paired with PSB speakers and a Pass DIY B1 preamp.  Bass is still powerful and very controlled, maybe a bit more controlled than the Pass but bass sounds much better with the Pass.  The Pass seems better able to unleash and deliver its power and it has tremendous slam.  Drum hits and kicks are uncannily real. The thing that the A21 does better is in its attack on the leading edges of guitar notes, stings and piano. It is more crisp but it may be more artificial.  The A21 also has a bit more sparkle in the upper frequencies but it can be fatiguing with Maggies.  Not so with the X250. 

Now I have not personally heard the X250.5 which is supposed to be more tube like and musical sounding with more air and transparency compared to the older X250 from what I have read.  Eventually I will upgrade to the 250.5 or the fabulous 250.8.

I would like to know what preamp and music source your friend is using with his A21.  It may be holding both amps back.  I used an AVA Ultra hybrid preamp then a Pass X1 and eventually a BAT VK51se preamp.  Each was much better with the Pass.  My DAC is a Luxman DA-06.

My advice, go with the Pass.  I would have sold my Pass a long time ago if the A21 sounded better.

I'm seriously temped -- there's one up on Audiogon now not all that far from me.

I do love the way the A-21 does piano, that was one thing it did a lot better than the amps I compared it to. But the A-21 would presumably end up doing bass duty for now.

Not sure what my friend was using for a front end, I'll have to ask him.