[eric1]

Hi all,

I see a lot of people using single driver speakers around this site. Why would one want that? Any one around here using them? I'm interested in some speakers for my 2nd system. They look pretty sexy, but what's the deal. I'm in my 50's, and I don't even remember ever seeing one in the flesh.

eric

[JLM]

I've heard them for 15+ years and owned them for 12 years.  Please note that there is no perfect speaker, you just choose the best set of compromises for your situation.  Single (extended range) drivers have the following advantages:

1.)  Coherency (most sound comes from the same source, not a cone/dome or cone/ribbon mix)
2.)  Better imaging (the single point source ideal)
3.)  Perfect time alignment (by definition)
4.)  No phasing issues between drivers in the critical midrange (no crossover)
5.)  Increased efficiency (crossovers lose roughly 20%)
6.)  Better synergy between amp and speakers (amp "sees" the simpler load better)

And single driver speakers have the following disadvantages:

1.)  Extremely difficult to obtain full range response (resulting in use of large/exotic cabinets)
2.)  Limited dynamics (can't have it all)
3.)  Limited output (from most examples)
4.)  Limited high frequency dispersion (due to relatively large driver diameter)
5.)  The drivers can be quite expensive (but only one needed and no crossover)
6.)  The ideal can be augmented with super tweeters or subwoofers

So single driver speakers are best suited for small ensembles in smaller spaces at lower volume levels.  I enjoy mostly small ensemble jazz and classical music near-field in a 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room.  My speakers are floor standing transmission lines.  The drivers (no longer available) are very heavy 8 inch, AlNiCo magnets, and cost $575 each when last available.  Note that I've added ambience tweeters (Late Ceiling Splash, located on the floor behind the speakers thanks to Duke LeJeune) to improve high frequency response and enlarge soundstage.  If used with a subwoofer, the single driver/speaker can be smaller/simpler/cheaper (check out Omega here at Audio Circle). 

[Blackmore]

Hi Eric,
JLM is pretty spot on in his assessment of the advantages/drawbacks to single drivers. A couple of us have Lowther based speakers and you're welcome to head west to hear mine. If you're on the east side, you'll need to cross two rivers to get here so pack a lunch 

Pm me if you'd like to hear single driver speakers driven by SET.  It's fun but not for every taste.

Welcome to GAS again.

Mark

[eric1]

Thanks JLM. They look really cool. I listen to that genre of music too, but also a lot of classic rock and blues.

Mark, I'd love to give them a listen. I'm all over the metro area for my work, and I only live about 12 miles SE of the arch.

Both you guys are welcome to come listen at my house too, I have some Atoll, and Dyn.

[JLM]

Thanks for the invite (picked up a pair of active Dynaudio BM5 Mk III monitors last summer). 

You should try to contact Scott F. (from here at Audio Circle who lives in the St. Louis area).  He hasn't posted as much of late, but used to do single driver speakers.

[Blackmore]

Hey Eric, give me a few weeks to finish up some things around the old apartment then I'll get my Lowther system set up again for you to hear.  Maybe we can make it a small listening session with some of the guys from GAS.  If you don't hear from me, post here again and jog my old brain cells. 

Mark

[eric1]

Hey Eric, give me a few weeks to finish up some things around the old apartment then I'll get my Lowther system set up again for you to hear.  Maybe we can make it a small listening session with some of the guys from GAS.  If you don't hear from me, post here again and jog my old brain cells. 

Mark

That would be great. Thanks.

[eric1]

Thanks for the invite (picked up a pair of active Dynaudio BM5 Mk III monitors last summer). 

You should try to contact Scott F. (from here at Audio Circle who lives in the St. Louis area).  He hasn't posted as much of late, but used to do single driver speakers.

Thanks JLm, I'll try and look him up.

[Scott F.]

Hi Eric

JLM is right. I was deep into single drivers but I've since changed systems. Blackmore is now the sacred keeper of all things single driver here in town. MerRev delves in on occasion as he bought my old Lowther drivers.

These days, I'm doing vintage...or at least for the next few months until our house is finished.

[eric1]

Hi Eric

JLM is right. I was deep into single drivers but I've since changed systems. Blackmore is now the sacred keeper of all things single driver here in town. MerRev delves in on occasion as he bought my old Lowther drivers.

These days, I'm doing vintage...or at least for the next few months until our house is finished.

So you've decided vintage is better than single drivers? Or just different? Or you just wanted to go down a new rabbit hole? Vintage is pretty hard to find, unless you like a restore project. Are those Dynaco's in your pic restored?

[FullRangeMan]

Hi all,

I see a lot of people using single driver speakers around this site. Why would one want that? Any one around here using them? I'm interested in some speakers for my 2nd system. They look pretty sexy, but what's the deal. I'm in my 50's, and I don't even remember ever seeing one in the flesh.

eric

The world wide full range driver fans are just afew thousands of people which realized the historical error that are multi-way speakers, just a way to charge hi prices.

Obviously you wont see single drivers loudspeaker in a hifi dealer as this kind of loudspeaker consist only of a raw driver and a enclousure, so the dealer have no way to justify to charge his abusive high prices due to the very low amount of system components and there is not a gleaming NASA technology that he can claim is too costly and esoteric.

There is no even a xover since it is the origin of distortions, veiled sound and phases errors etc
The FR idea is one(1) small amp driving direct one(1) fullrange driver.

[eric1]

The world wide full range driver fans are just afew thousands of people which realized the historical error that are multi-way speakers, just a way to charge hi prices.

Obviously you wont see single drivers loudspeaker in a hifi dealer as this kind of loudspeaker consist only of a raw driver and a enclousure, so the dealer have no way to justify to charge his abusive high prices due to the very low amount of system components and there is not a gleaming NASA technology that he can claim is too costly and esoteric.

There is no even a xover since it is the origin of distortions, veiled sound and phases errors etc
The FR idea is one(1) small amp driving direct one(1) fullrange driver.

I'm hoping to hear some. What kind of music do you put through them? Just classical and jazz? I listen to some of that stuff too (I like female vocalist), but what about when I want to listen to classic rock? I also like visceral. Sometimes when I'm feeling it, I just gotta feel it (if that makes any sense). Anyhoo, I'm exited to get a chance to hear some. Maybe one of those tube amp thingies too. 

[FullRangeMan]

Due the limited power handling its ideal to a small room, as I like prog rock it need a FR driver suited to a big floor standing enclousure to offer some omph, which is some difficult to find, just at CommonSense by what I know.

Also the right internal stuff is need to come alive the bass(no foam or sonex) I found  great bass w/this blanket:

This image is 5mm, I use 10mm.

[eric1]

Due the limited power handling its ideal to a small room, as I like prog rock it need a FR driver suited to a big floor standing enclousure to offer some omph, which is some difficult to find, just at CommonSense by what I know.

Also the right internal stuff is need to come alive the bass(no foam or sonex) I found  great bass w/this blanket:

This image is 5mm, I use 10mm.

I see, the secret must be in the cats!!  I'd like to see a pic of the speakers if you have one. I'm thinking about visiting CommonSense. What size driver and enclosure do you have? Solid state amp? I like ProgRock too. I have some Yes, Rush, Kansas, and the like in my LP collection.

Thanks,
eric

[FullRangeMan]

I use a Beyma 5mp60/n in a simple 16L car bazooca:
http://www.dexon.cz/data/popisy/02016.pdf
No even paper cone, its a simple driver.

[Scott F.]

So you've decided vintage is better than single drivers? Or just different? Or you just wanted to go down a new rabbit hole? Vintage is pretty hard to find, unless you like a restore project. Are those Dynaco's in your pic restored?

Its definitely not better. Just easier and most certainly different. OK, so here's the story:

A while back, and for the best part of a decade previous, me and Blackmore were into 'single drivers'. In our world, single drivers weren't "single". We cut them off at around 150Hz and rolled in active 12" or 15" woofers (Altecs) below them with an active crossover and an amp. We weren't running the Lowthers "full" range, just "wide" range (150Hz to ~15kHz, no need for a tweeter above). The Lowthers were driven with SETs, usually 300Bs, 2A3s or 45s. The woofers were driven with anything from a pair of Antique Sound Lab Wave 8s to 55wpc AKSA kit amps.

Here is a pic of my old SET/Open Baffle system


This system was phenomenal. It did literally everything right and was unbelievably inviting but, it took up a lot of real estate and cost several hundred bucks a year to operate (read=new driver and power tubes).

So I got a wild hair up my butt and decided to completely change my system to something much simpler (sort of). Here is a pic of my latest system:


Since this pic, I've installed a new DIY rack and lost a digit. As you can see, I'm doing McIntosh and B&W speakers.


So, that leads me to the system I'm using now. Here's a pic:



So here is the story behind this system. Currently my house is under major renovations...renovations to the point we moved out. In turn, I needed tunes so I grabbed some of my old vintage gear that has been completely restored (all new caps and critical resistors) and tossed together a killer little vintage system. I'm using an HH Scott 299A (6BQ5) integrated that has both MM and MC phono inputs. I swiped the Merrill turntable out of my big Mac 'n B&W system. It's got a Denon DL-110 cart, soon to be swapped out for a Dynavector 17D Karat. Digital is a spare netbook with JRiver feeding the MHDT Stockholm DAC. Speaker cables are mis-matched zip cord. Interconnects are Rat Shack or something cheesy I had laying around and the power cords are...who knows... The speakers are ADS L780s circa late 1980s, un-restored.

Best part of this system? You can't sit in the sweet spot. I've got it jammed in a corner and you sit off axis.

What this does is it takes the gear right out of the equation. No longer are you listening to gear. You are now listening (and likely singing to) music. This system is all about the tone.... and it just sucks you in, plain and simple. It has plenty of detail if you choose to listen at that level but I prefer not to. I'm simply smitten with the sound. Something a little bass shy? Reach over an spin the bass knobs. Little short on treble on a dull recording? Twist the treble controls.

Honestly, I couldn't be happier, in fact I was talking to Blackmore last night about selling all the 'audiophile' crap I've got and going with this system (or one of the other three like this that I've got). These things just take me back to the music, which is all I ever cared about before I fell into the audiophile trap.

That typed, the Mac 'n B&W system just kills when it comes to the visceral side of listening. The little HH Scott system can't even dream of the slam that 450wpc of Mac power driving the 800Ds provides. It literally shakes the entire house....and I need that sometimes. For that reason, I likely won't dump the big 'reference' system, but boy it sure is tempting. The longer I live with this simple system, the deeper I fall for it.

So, long winding answer to your question....we don't do true 'single full range drivers' here in town. Just wide range with big woofers to augment the bass. This, in my opinion, is the best way to do them.

[eric1]

Its definitely not better. Just easier and most certainly different. OK, so here's the story:

A while back, and for the best part of a decade previous, me and Blackmore were into 'single drivers'. In our world, single drivers weren't "single". We cut them off at around 150Hz and rolled in active 12" or 15" woofers (Altecs) below them with an active crossover and an amp. We weren't running the Lowthers "full" range, just "wide" range (150Hz to ~15kHz, no need for a tweeter above). The Lowthers were driven with SETs, usually 300Bs, 2A3s or 45s. The woofers were driven with anything from a pair of Antique Sound Lab Wave 8s to 55wpc AKSA kit amps.

Here is a pic of my old SET/Open Baffle system


This system was phenomenal. It did literally everything right and was unbelievably inviting but, it took up a lot of real estate and cost several hundred bucks a year to operate (read=new driver and power tubes).

So I got a wild hair up my butt and decided to completely change my system to something much simpler (sort of). Here is a pic of my latest system:


Since this pic, I've installed a new DIY rack and lost a digit. As you can see, I'm doing McIntosh and B&W speakers.


So, that leads me to the system I'm using now. Here's a pic:



So here is the story behind this system. Currently my house is under major renovations...renovations to the point we moved out. In turn, I needed tunes so I grabbed some of my old vintage gear that has been completely restored (all new caps and critical resistors) and tossed together a killer little vintage system. I'm using an HH Scott 299A (6BQ5) integrated that has both MM and MC phono inputs. I swiped the Merrill turntable out of my big Mac 'n B&W system. It's got a Denon DL-110 cart, soon to be swapped out for a Dynavector 17D Karat. Digital is a spare netbook with JRiver feeding the MHDT Stockholm DAC. Speaker cables are mis-matched zip cord. Interconnects are Rat Shack or something cheesy I had laying around and the power cords are...who knows... The speakers are ADS L780s circa late 1980s, un-restored.

Best part of this system? You can't sit in the sweet spot. I've got it jammed in a corner and you sit off axis.

What this does is it takes the gear right out of the equation. No longer are you listening to gear. You are now listening (and likely singing to) music. This system is all about the tone.... and it just sucks you in, plain and simple. It has plenty of detail if you choose to listen at that level but I prefer not to. I'm simply smitten with the sound. Something a little bass shy? Reach over an spin the bass knobs. Little short on treble on a dull recording? Twist the treble controls.

Honestly, I couldn't be happier, in fact I was talking to Blackmore last night about selling all the 'audiophile' crap I've got and going with this system (or one of the other three like this that I've got). These things just take me back to the music, which is all I ever cared about before I fell into the audiophile trap.

That typed, the Mac 'n B&W system just kills when it comes to the visceral side of listening. The little HH Scott system can't even dream of the slam that 450wpc of Mac power driving the 800Ds provides. It literally shakes the entire house....and I need that sometimes. For that reason, I likely won't dump the big 'reference' system, but boy it sure is tempting. The longer I live with this simple system, the deeper I fall for it.

So, long winding answer to your question....we don't do true 'single full range drivers' here in town. Just wide range with big woofers to augment the bass. This, in my opinion, is the best way to do them.

That sure does look a lot more simple, we're all just chasing cheap thrills and simple pleasures anyway. Thanks for the entailed post. I'll try to get some pics of my stuff up, but it's all off the rack mainstream gear. 450 watts through those B&W's must rock you like a hurricane.

[MerRev]

Hi Eric,

The single or wide range drivers that Scott and Mark refer to can be intoxicating.   Please listen to Blackmores setup before purchasing anything.   I prefer them in a lively room and am still tweaking.   Hope to see you soon

Chris

[daves]

Once I get mine reconed, I'll be the third Lowther owner here.

[eric1]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I'm dying to hear some.