[DWallach]

Back in 1999, I bought myself two RM2's and three 626R's for use in my home theater. Fast forward to today, in a new house, and the RM2's are now on their own as a two-channel stereo environment, and the 626R's are serving as left/center/right in my home theater, with smaller in-ceiling speakers for the rear channels.

Well, it appears that one of my 626R's has finally failed. The woofer is still going, but nothing at all from the midrange or tweeter. This leads me to my questions for the forum. In no particular order:

• I need to decide whether to try to repair the broken 626R (e.g., maybe the crossover died) or just replace them all as a group. Based on what I've read elsewhere on this forum, it seems like it would be smart for me to keep them around to cannibalize as necessary to keep my RM2's going. (Same mid and tweeter, different woofers.)
• If I were to try to sell them (two working, one not so much) what are they worth?
• My current home theater has custom cabinetry, such that the front three speakers are inside the cabinets behind fabric panels. All three stand vertically, with the TV immediately above the center speaker. The center cabinet was sized specifically around the 626R, so any replacement speaker must be no wider. (I've got a few inches to handle taller, but I can't go any wider at all.)
• What new speakers fit the bill? My initial research suggests that the Evoke Eddie is strikingly similar to the VMPS 626R, making it an obvious choice for a replacement. It even has the same rear-ported design, but given the way my cabinets work, it would probably be smarter to have speakers with a front port, so there isn't sound resonating around in our cabinetry. There are also a number of two-way ribbon speakers that seem to be in the spiritual neighborhood like the Selah Anniversario or the Newform Research Ribbon Monitor 258. What else?

Thanks!

[witchdoctor]

The Focal Bird's are small and will likely fit in your cabinets along with the Gallo Adiva's.

[Evoke]

Back in 1999, I bought myself two RM2's and three 626R's for use in my home theater. Fast forward to today, in a new house, and the RM2's are now on their own as a two-channel stereo environment, and the 626R's are serving as left/center/right in my home theater, with smaller in-ceiling speakers for the rear channels.

Well, it appears that one of my 626R's has finally failed. The woofer is still going, but nothing at all from the midrange or tweeter. This leads me to my questions for the forum. In no particular order:

• I need to decide whether to try to repair the broken 626R (e.g., maybe the crossover died) or just replace them all as a group. Based on what I've read elsewhere on this forum, it seems like it would be smart for me to keep them around to cannibalize as necessary to keep my RM2's going. (Same mid and tweeter, different woofers.)
• If I were to try to sell them (two working, one not so much) what are they worth?
• My current home theater has custom cabinetry, such that the front three speakers are inside the cabinets behind fabric panels. All three stand vertically, with the TV immediately above the center speaker. The center cabinet was sized specifically around the 626R, so any replacement speaker must be no wider. (I've got a few inches to handle taller, but I can't go any wider at all.)
• What new speakers fit the bill? My initial research suggests that the Evoke Eddie is strikingly similar to the VMPS 626R, making it an obvious choice for a replacement. It even has the same rear-ported design, but given the way my cabinets work, it would probably be smarter to have speakers with a front port, so there isn't sound resonating around in our cabinetry. There are also a number of two-way ribbon speakers that seem to be in the spiritual neighborhood like the Selah Anniversario or the Newform Research Ribbon Monitor 258. What else?

Thanks!

Morning -


First thing you should speak with John Casler. He had the strongest connection with VMPS and may have parts. He also has an associate that is very good with the crossover as well. If you can get them running you would be set for a long time. That would be the cheapest option. Can't speak for you but I try to keep my money set aside for Starbucks!


Thanks for the EVOKE mention. Eddie was modeled after the 626 and Infinity's advanced EMIM driver. (Over time manufacturing has improved and the EDDIE mid is far superior.) You can check the specs and site - and John C has a pair - he can tell you how they sound.


Cabinets can be an issue. If you have clearance out the back for the port - you are fine - no worries. The only time you need a front port is for flush mounting or when placed against a wall - but even then you can be as close as a port width away from the wall (technically).


I am a big fan of the Newform ribbons by themselves. They are an improvement over the 626 mid planar. (As is the new BG Neo 8S) Their 258 will not be as good on the top end - extension or transparency - that's because you have the tweeter that sounds wonderful extending way beyond 20K. Now people say you can't hear that. However, optimizing a mid to a tweet does several things - one is dispersion in particular.


Crossovers are a constant conversation. Without taking any punches at other products - a good crossover should be phase coherent. That adds more parts and even more money when the parts are high quality. 12 db/oct crossovers are not phase coherent. Having owned 626's you are spoiled and won't be able to tolerate anything else for the rest of your life


If I can help in any other way, drop a note. Happy holidays.


Mark
EVOKE

[srb]

Salk HT1 (Seas Excel W18)

Salk SongSurround Supercharged (Seas Excel W15)

Both have a RAAL Ribbon and can be configured with front port.

[Early B.]

It's probably a simple fix, but technology has made tremendous advancements in the past 17 years. There's better stuff out there at decent prices. Just depends on what you want to do. Frankly, I'd go for the Evoke speakers and be done with it. 

[witchdoctor]

It's probably a simple fix, but technology has made tremendous advancements in the past 17 years. There's better stuff out there at decent prices. Just depends on what you want to do. Frankly, I'd go for the Evoke speakers and be done with it.

I don't think that you can say technology advances = better SQ. I would say that is especially true with speakers. You can even argue that technology advances have damaged SQ in both ends of the chain, both in recording and in consumer audio. I think one thing technology has advanced is convenience but people still buy and admire vintage gear for a reason, and it's not because it sucks. Check out these JBL's:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-C44-Paragon-w-Rare-Blue-Units-Worldwide-Shipping-Available-/122145760089?hash=item1c70746359:g:v5EAAOSwYIxX4sPH

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-studio-monitors-JBL-4345-Limited-editions/152318900118?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D1d45fbf13176454e8ca5767c0e59d4ac%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122145760089

[Evoke]

I don't think that you can say technology advances = better SQ. I would say that is especially true with speakers. You can even argue that technology advances have damaged SQ in both ends of the chain, both in recording and in consumer audio. I think one thing technology has advanced is convenience but people still buy and admire vintage gear for a reason, and it's not because it sucks. Check out these JBL's:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-C44-Paragon-w-Rare-Blue-Units-Worldwide-Shipping-Available-/122145760089?hash=item1c70746359:g:v5EAAOSwYIxX4sPH

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-studio-monitors-JBL-4345-Limited-editions/152318900118?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D1d45fbf13176454e8ca5767c0e59d4ac%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122145760089

I agree on the technology issue. When Class D amplification came out it was junk. Years later we have some amazing Class A/D designs. In fact, I have one of those amps that I use amongst a few others when testing. In the case of the movie Avatar - it was conceived 10 years before the filming began - the technology simply did not exist to produce the film. Now it does and it is a win for tech.


With speaker drivers, the tolerances can be tighter while quality can be repeated. This is especially true of planar drivers. Older EMIM and NEO panels had tensioning issues. This leaded to inconsistencies in performance and reliability. Advanced manufacturing techniques now allow for a reference driver to be produced within 1% of production units. Now if we assume the initial driver was good - being able to replicate it is a good thing. Today we have neo magnets that are readily available and not cost prohibitive. We can tension a diaphragm in 4 directions with specific attention to the corners which has been source of failure - as is where the connection terminals exist.


In your reference of the Paragon, I recently heard one in Palm Springs on "sale" for $22,000. The midrange was amazing. The highs by today's standards were a tad harsh and the bass while extended but lacked the transparency of the mid. All-in-all a classic.


I owned the Infinity Servo's. Loved them. RTR tweeters were a dream. In the early iteration the transformers and power supply were weak. The mid panels were amazing when they weren't shorting due to lack of insulation. If improved reliability existed I would consider them again - an absolute musical classic - not accurate - but wonderful just the same. In that case - subwoofer technology has improved dramatically since that Infinity sub. It sounds terrible compared to subs today.


I think my favorite speaker was circa 1978 - a large Nakamichi 2-way reference monitor. With tube amps the image was as good as anything today. 


What can never improve is passion. If that doesn't exist with the designer or in the philosophy of a speaker company - you'll get junk no matter how you do it. You can take all the diamond encrusted / carbon fiber stuff in the world and it won't work if you lack the humility to honor the music.

[witchdoctor]

My favorite vintage gear are amps and preamps by Bob Carver, both from his Carver Corp days and Sunfire. I could have picked up a Carver 5 Channel Theater Grand amp in 1999/2000 for around $1000. I see them for sale now on Ebay at around the same price, amazing. Just because it's old doesn't mean it doesn't kick out the jams.

[HAL]

Since both the midrange and tweeter are out, might just be the two L-Pads for level adjustments have gone bad.  They are still available from Parts Express for replacement.

You can check the planar midrange with an ohm meter and should measure about 3 ohms across the two screw connections.

PE use to sell the Aurum Cantus ribbon element to rebuild the tweeter if you have an FST.

[fredgarvin]

Since both the midrange and tweeter are out, might just be the two L-Pads for level adjustments have gone bad.  They are still available from Parts Express for replacement.

You can check the planar midrange with an ohm meter and should measure about 3 ohms across the two screw connections.

PE use to sell the Aurum Cantus ribbon element to rebuild the tweeter if you have an FST.

That's a likely solution, I had one of those fail on one of my RM1's. It's an easy repair.

[soarertoy]

Hi,
I have used 2xRM2's front (no middle) and 2x626's rear with good results.

[7x57]

Check to see if the L-pads are shot. It's a cheap repair.

Acousta-Stuf is an upgrade for the fiberglass damping material.

Lamb's wool is an upgrade for the midrange damping material. Haven't done that to my speakers yet, but Brian Cheney said it was the ultimate midrange damping material.

Since the cabinets with solid hardwood corners are rather nice, I can't see selling my speakers if something happened to the drivers. B-G makes a similar midrange driver for around $180 last time I looked. They were once available from Parts Express.

Dayton Audio makes some woofers that should work well as replacements, but the woofers will be the easiest drivers to find a suitable substitute.

I bought my RM1 pair back in 2001, and I thought the new neopanels had just been introduced that year. A 1999 model must have the earlier midrange panels. If so, the panels would not work well as replacements in later models made since 2001.