[magnuska]

Hello!

I have now used the LIO with AVC/tubestage with stock JJ tubes since this summer. I am very glad I found the Vinnie Rossie brand and the LIO.

The sound is so natural and easy to listen too. The midrange is very nice and was a big nice surprice ( coming from a Teddy pardo solidstate amp)
So all is almost perfect except parts of the bass performance. It is for my taste too diffuse and unsharp - not the solid ground I would like.

According to Vinnie the DHT will take care of this bass issues I hear now. But I cannot finance this upgrade right now.

 What do you say folks who made the change from JJ stock tubes primary to Telefunken e88cc wich seems to be very popular.  Did the bass performance get better? What else improved? Are there any other tubes in this 6922 series that one
could also consider?

Regards Magnus

[FullRangeMan]

Tubes 6N1P 6N2P 6DJ8 7DJ8 7308 ECC88 6N1 are compatible w/6922.
But ask Vinnie before purchase.

[magnuska]

Thanks Fullrangeman,

[Dieterle Tool]

And, E288CC. The Siemens (8223) is an outstanding choice for preamp use. It is a direct replacement in the 6992 family. Physically they are a gnat's ass taller then a 6992.

Dieter

[magnuska]

Thanks Dieter, Are siemens a bit like the same as Telefunken in regards of SQ?

Will this Reflektor work http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922?custcol_additional_options=3

According the reviews bass is improved - anyone tried this?

[Dieterle Tool]

Ah, the 6H23p is a good choice. I have no experience with the Reflector but I use 6H23n-EB's which are recommended for my K&K phono. I think I would try those before dropping a lot of money on the NOS's.

The Tele's are a little more "layed-back" than the Siemens.

Have you tried tube dampers? What you are hearing may be a result of microphonics. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, the JJ's are decent tubes.

Dieter

[jtwrace]

I use Tele's in my Silver AVC/Tubestage and while the JJ's were great the Tele's improved everything across the board.  Hard $400 to swallow but glad I did. 

"TomS" here on AC who upgraded to the DHT is selling his Tele's here on AC. 
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=145899.0

[CSI]

PM Sent.

[magnuska]

PM Sent.

Hi CSI,

There is no PM in my inbox...

Regards Magnus

[CSI]

I'm sorry Magnuska. I sent the PM to Tom about buying the tubes. Got mixed up on the reply box and pushed the wrong button.

BTW, when I get the tubes I will take some careful notes and post about what I hear with the Teles vs. the stock tubes.

[yardbird4]

Hello!

I have now used the LIO with AVC/tubestage with stock JJ tubes since this summer. I am very glad I found the Vinnie Rossie brand and the LIO.

The sound is so natural and easy to listen too. The midrange is very nice and was a big nice surprice ( coming from a Teddy pardo solidstate amp)
So all is almost perfect except parts of the bass performance. It is for my taste too diffuse and unsharp - not the solid ground I would like.

According to Vinnie the DHT will take care of this bass issues I hear now. But I cannot finance this upgrade right now.

 What do you say folks who made the change from JJ stock tubes primary to Telefunken e88cc wich seems to be very popular.  Did the bass performance get better? What else improved? Are there any other tubes in this 6922 series that one
could also consider?

Regards Magnus

I have moved on the DHT Pre but before I did I tried the Telefunkens and was disappointed with them in every way.  For my taste they were too warm, not enough detail, and found the bass slam was less than the stock JJ's.  The base was maybe heavier but certainly less defined. Too tubey for newbie to tubes like me.  I am surprised that you found the JJ's too diffused and un-sharpe since I would say my experience was the opposite -- well focused with good definition.

[Vinnie R.]

I have moved on the DHT Pre but before I did I tried the Telefunkens and was disappointed with them in every way.  For my taste they were too warm, not enough detail, and found the bass slam was less than the stock JJ's.  The base was maybe heavier but certainly less defined. Too tubey for newbie to tubes like me.  I am surprised that you found the JJ's too diffused and un-sharpe since I would say my experience was the opposite -- well focused with good definition.

Hi yardbird4 et al,

I have to wonder how much variation there is between sets of the same make/model NOS tubes?  In an ideal world, every make/model tube sounds nearly identical. 

And I have to wonder about how much influence a given set of speakers / room has on end result as well?

(The same is true with the DHT Tube Rolling thread... experiences of users varies quite a bit).

Just something for everyone to keep in mind.  Perhaps it is a little frustrating at first, but once you get
that "magic pair" of tubes that gels with your system, I think you'll find that it pays off! 

Thanks for all your posts helping to guide magnuska!

Vinnie

[yardbird4]

Hi yardbird4 et al,

I have to wonder how much variation there is between sets of the same make/model NOS tubes?  In an ideal world, every make/model tube sounds nearly identical. 

And I have to wonder about how much influence a given set of speakers / room has on end result as well?

(The same is true with the DHT Tube Rolling thread... experiences of users varies quite a bit).

Just something for everyone to keep in mind.  Perhaps it is a little frustrating at first, but once you get
that "magic pair" of tubes that gels with your system, I think you'll find that it pays off! 

Thanks for all your posts helping to guide magnuska!

Vinnie

I am in complete agreement

[magnuska]

I'm sorry Magnuska. I sent the PM to Tom about buying the tubes. Got mixed up on the reply box and pushed the wrong button.

BTW, when I get the tubes I will take some careful notes and post about what I hear with the Teles vs. the stock tubes.

Hi CSI, no problem. Will be interesting to hear your thoghts  afterwards.

/Magnus

[magnuska]

I have moved on the DHT Pre but before I did I tried the Telefunkens and was disappointed with them in every way.  For my taste they were too warm, not enough detail, and found the bass slam was less than the stock JJ's.  The base was maybe heavier but certainly less defined. Too tubey for newbie to tubes like me.  I am surprised that you found the JJ's too diffused and un-sharpe since I would say my experience was the opposite -- well focused with good definition.

Thanks for your input. Sounds like the Telefunken is not for me.

I am also a newbie to tubes coming from solid state and I must say that I really like what solid state did for me in the bass region. But tubes excels in mid and upper highs. And most important tonality is much more true to lifelike instruments. I play piano, violin, guitar and keyboards myself and my previous amp did not work as good as tubes when it comes to this.
I also agree that room and setup can differ and that could be the reason I find JJ different than you do.

From over 30 years of this hobby I have learnt a bit about set up as well and also the importance of a good hifirack etc.

Maybe tubes will never be as good as solid state when it comes to bass reproduction but I will try and see. 

/Magnus

[magnuska]

Hello again,

To sum it up I have now ordered a set of tubes from Europe.  A brand called TAD from tubeampdoctor in Germany.
Don`t have a clue if they are good but I descided to start slowly with a cheaper tube just to see if tuberolling is for me at all.

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Pre_Amp_Tubes_SELECTED/6922_E88CC_TAD_Premium_Selected_balanced_550


I would appreciate if Vinnie could chime in and give his blessing to this tube so I don`t make a mistake about it beeing non compatible in the LIO,  but I hope they are.

Thanks again for helping me. Is it something special to consider when actually swapping them in the LIO?

Regards Magnus

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Magnus,

I never heard of the TAD tubes (are they new production tubes that have the TAD brand logo on them?  Who makes them?).
But they certainly look compatible as they are 6922 / E88CC type.  I hope you like them!

Swapping tubes is easy:

- Turn off LIO
- Slide open top cover.
- Locate and unplug stock tubes by holding the glass and pulling straight upwards.
- Align the 9 pins of the new tube over the socket and push into the socket (make sure pins are straight and correctly
aligned).

Welcome to tube rolling... you'll love it! 

Vinnie

[magnuska]

Hi Vinnie I have now completed my first tube rolling excercise

And it was a success.
It sounds like a new amp.

Regards Magnus

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Vinnie I have now completed my first tube rolling exercise

And it was a success.
It sounds like a new amp.

Regards Magnus

Hi Magnus,

Congrats!   

Tell us how the TAD 6922 sounds.  I think you are the first LIO customer to use it:



Vinnie

[magnuska]

Hi Vinnie, are you getting enough sleep at night BTW 

Back to the TAD,
After 24 hrs of burn in they are stabilizing and the first hour was almost unlistenable.

The JJ stock tubes are a good tube but IMHO not enough.

The TAD tube is very quiet and well balanced across the left /right spectrum and has better linearity across
the whole freq spectrum from low to high. They are a bit dryer sounding meaning that notes start and stop a bit
faster wich is nice for the bass performance . It is a more clear sounding tube, notes have a better decay and the cymbals sound more
accurate.

Maybe the JJ stock tubes are a warmer sounding tube if that is a preference, but for me the TAD is clearly better for only around 80 USD matched and
balanced pair.

If I would suggest something for LIO is  a new stocktube that in a more accurate way will help the amp to reach its deserved potential.

Regards Magnus