Caps on outlets for filtering question

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JoshK

Caps on outlets for filtering question
« on: 17 Nov 2004, 03:49 pm »
I am not picking on anyone, but someone in another thread brought up something that has got me asking myself some questions lately so I thought I would start another thread about it.  Here is the quote:

Quote
I would use Chris's 12g cryo treated wire & also put a .47uf 600v Auricap on each outlet. Could also put 1 or 2 .47uf 600v Auricaps across hot & neutral at main electrical inlet (inside the Monster conditioner). If you have some ERS cloth around could install on inside top cover. Could also put a Bybee in parallel with each of the hot & neutral main electrical feeds.


Certainly nothing wrong with that statement that I notice but it has got me wondering.  I often see audiophile products, not to name names, that use auricaps and other audiophile brand caps for power filtering.   This is where I have the question.  I thought audiophile caps are typically wide band caps, but for use in power filtering wide band is not a good thing, i.e. you want to shunt away the garbage outside of the band.   Am I wrong, am I missing something? Have I completely missapplied the concept in this case?

Anyway, I thought that might make an interesting starter for a discussion on the appropriate use of different types of caps.  I have heard it said before that sometimes wide band caps are not what you want in certain applications and I think power filtering was one of them.  

Humbly,

Occam

Caps on outlets for filtering question
« Reply #1 on: 17 Nov 2004, 04:32 pm »
Josh,

It would depend on the components specific role......

If I have a transformer, either power or isolation for a powersupply, I want it to have low bandwidth. I want it to pass just the 50/60hz mains power frequency and would like the higher frequencies not to get through. So all things being equal (which they never are) I would choose a split bobbln EI, R or C core transformer over a typical toroidal transformer. For a series function of passing AC voltage I want low bandwidth, just sufficient to pass the mains frequency with deminimus attenuation, and would like high  attenuation of higher frequencies.

Typically, the role of a capacitor in power conditioning is that of a shunt.... to take noise on the 'Hot' line, and redirect it to the Neutral or Ground lines. [This is a gross simplification, as there is also noise on the Neutral line, etc... and the capacitor also makes differential noise into common mode noise which can then be 'dealt with via the transformer] Noise on AC lines is high freqency in nature (lets not talk about DC on AC lines which is certainly noise, but has been discussed on other threads). Remember your Fourier analysis? In this role we want the capacitor to have as high a bandwidth as possible because we want to divert it (shunt) that noise off of the 50/60hz power.

Long story short - capacitive power decoupling, whether AC of DC rail, should be high bandwith, high dV/dt, and low inductance as we want noise to pass through that cap.

JoshK

Caps on outlets for filtering question
« Reply #2 on: 17 Nov 2004, 04:38 pm »
Thanks for the explanation!  That makes a lot of sense.  As far as remembering my Fourier Analysis, well vaguely at best.  Didn't use much Fourier analysis beyond my first course in DiffEq.

Looks like a got a lot more reading to do.   :oops:

maggy

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
ac filtering
« Reply #3 on: 20 Nov 2004, 06:51 am »
a suggestion : use a sort of bandpass filter.   Off-hand,  I would suggest 0.01uf hot to neutral,  preferably the silver-mica type of capacitor.   Further,  you can also put another cap between hot to ground and neutral to ground.   This BEFORE the transformer.

This will filter out "noise" in the KHz range.   I hope this helps.