[Horizons]

Any thoughts on this info recently posted on AA?

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/RealityCheck.htm

[John Casler]

Any thoughts on this info recently posted on AA?

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/RealityCheck.htm

I have spoken with George recently and he has some good credentials in High End, (originator of Finyl CD treatment)

I am thinking about being a dealer for the CD burner/duplicator, but will probably send in an original to have duplicated, before I make that decision.

It seems he also has a product that competes with "Auric Illuminator" and other CD treatments

Fun guy to talk to.

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

I have a strong suspicion it is EAC implemented in the firmware. Not sure, I want to patronise this not so original idea.
(Just some input, John)

[Rob Babcock]

That's a lot of enthusiasm considering he only had two discs done!   That's also a lot of money.  Anyone who's considering that really ought to go by the Eximius website and try their Audio Remaster program first.  Eximius lets you burn to DVD for 2+ hrs of music, plus they have a completely free trial version.

[John Casler]

I have a strong suspicion it is EAC implemented in the firmware. Not sure, I want to patronise this not so original idea.
(Just some input, John)

Hi AEA,

What is EAC and how does it relate?  Is there a problem with it?  Is it a rip off?  Tell me more.

[John Casler]

That's a lot of enthusiasm considering he only had two discs done!   That's also a lot of money.  Anyone who's considering that really ought to go by the Eximius website and try their Audio Remaster program first.  Eximius lets you burn to DVD for 2+ hrs of music, plus they have a completely free trial version.

Rob,

Did you try this yet?  If so what's your opinion?

[Marbles]

EAC = Exact Audio Copy -  a freeware for ripping and burning CD's on a computer.

[JohnR]

He calls it "NanoBit Ultralog™ Reprocessing with Bezier Curve Re-Algorization™," which indicates that he is processing the signal. (In other words, not an exact copy.)

[randytsuch]

For $5 and shipping, he will make a copy of any CD you send to him.  If I get around to it, I will probably give it a go.  Cheap enough to try it for one CD.  His normal price for making CD copies is $20 a pop, which is a little pricey.

If I get to it, it would be interesting to read the original and copy into a PC, and run them though a sound analysis program, to see if they differ or not.

Randy

[BeeBop]

The Six Moons review he links to says that the system is better because it is reading bits off of a hard drive instead of reading them off of a spinning disc. How does he thhink a hard drive works, with a shovel? It all spins and it spins at even higher speeds than a CD player. My SCSI drives spin at 10K, and 15K is common in server applications.

[PhilNYC]

The Six Moons review he links to says that the system is better because it is reading bits off of a hard drive instead of reading them off of a spinning disc. How does he thhink a hard drive works, with a shovel? It all spins and it spins at even higher speeds than a CD player. My SCSI drives spin at 10K, and 15K is common in server applications.

The reason a hard drive is better is because the data/signal all remains electric/magnetic, whereas reading a CD needs a conversion from optical to electrical...and that conversion process can introduce jitter.

But the 6moons review is not a review of this "Better Bits" thing, right?

[audioengr]

The Six Moons review he links to says that the system is better because it is reading bits off of a hard drive instead of reading them off of a spinning disc. How does he thhink a hard drive works, with a shovel? It all spins and it spins at even higher speeds than a CD player. My SCSI drives spin at 10K, and 15K is common in server applications.

There is a big difference in the way that a CD drive reads off the bits and the way a hard disk drive reads the bits.  The hard disk reads the bits at very high-speed and is always buffered in memory before it is sent out to any I/O.  You dont get the jitter caused by real-time reading of a CD.  Same when reading files off a CDROM (optical).

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

I have a strong suspicion it is EAC implemented in the firmware. Not sure, I want to patronise this not so original idea.
(Just some input, John)

Hi AEA,

What is EAC and how does it relate?  Is there a problem with it?  Is it a rip off?  Tell me more.

John,
As mentioned previously Exact Audio Copy is the program one can use to rip a CD with minumum errors. This person (George Louis ?) even confirms that he was inspired by a friend's CDR copies which were better than the original . But he does not mention Exact Audio Copy.  The EAC program needs to be 'configured' with some errors/patterns in known CDs. ie. it comes with a pattern for say, Eric Clapton's Unplugged. You then rip Unplugged in your specific drive. By comparing the test pattern with the read value from the specific drive, the program figures out the idiosyncracies/'zero erro' of the specific drive.
Now, you can rip any other CDs with EAC and is mostly likely to have very minimal errors. You then copy them to preferably  black CDRs.
I have done this for a few disks. The copied disks seem to have more body/midrange. But I have been too lazy to do all my disks this way. This is a well known tweek in audioasylum.com. BTW, I have found in general CDRs to be less  prone to tweaks like CD polish, mat etc ..ie. it is probably much easier/less error prone to read.

I think our entreprenuer here has saved all the trouble for a EAC user by putting the program into firmware and then optimises the program for the drives he is using in his product. He is probably using some processing too, but I dont know where the improvement is coming. I would think most of it is coming from the EAC procedure.

Hope this helps.

[John Casler]

John,
As mentioned previously Exact Audio Copy is the program one can use to rip a CD with minumum errors. This person (George Louis ?) even confirms that he was inspired by a friend's CDR copies which were better than the original . But he does not mention Exact Audio Copy.  The EAC program needs to be 'configured' with some errors/patterns in known CDs. ie. it comes with a pattern for say, Eric Clapton's Unplugged. You then rip Unplugged in your specific drive. By comparing the test pattern with the rea ...

Thanks,

I guess the proof (would be) in the pudding.  I'll have to send this fellow a CD and see what the return sounds like.

I too use the BLACK CD's as well as the "Bedini Clarifier", and it is hard to imagine getting "too" much better.

Thanks

[Rob Babcock]

John, I PM'd you about the Eximius software.  Afterwards, though, it occured to me that I shoulda just posted it for all to see.  

[John Casler]

John, I PM'd you about the Eximius software.  Afterwards, though, it occured to me that I shoulda just posted it for all to see.  

Thanks, I got it today as I was running out.

It looks like tongues are wagging

Look here for related threads:



http://www.softronix.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000982.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=470059&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

http://hometheatertalk.com/httalk/viewtopic.php?t=10065

[Rob Babcock]

I just started poking around the links you provided, John, and I would like to comment on one thing- one of the posters alluded to pops between tracks.  The guy from Eximius was dismissive of that complaint, but it turned out to be true.  Bear in mind those threads are 6 months old or so, but in the first version, metadata could cause pops and clicks.  The workaround was to rip with EAC, as it doesn't fold metadata into the stream.  Many wave editors & rippers do.  That bug was addressed in the later versions, available as a free upgrade to anyone who owns the software.

The current itineration seems to be bombproof, if not terribly user friendly.

[Rob Babcock]

Okay, I read all the threads.  I have to say I agree with them, and also comment that there does occasionally seem to be a slightly narrowed soundstage, but it does depend on how you're playing it back.  And I also agree that you also get more detail at the same time.  It is plausible that the "depth" or "width" is an artifact to begin with.

I absolutely love the software, but I'm hesitant to get all gushy over it; I'd rather let you decide for yourself.  Anyone can easily download the trial version for free.  You'll be limited to making discs with 8 songs until you buy the full version.  I can't recall, but I think the full download costs 50 Euros.  Then it's chained to just that PC with a very cunning antipiracy routine.  Too many core hardware changes will necessitate the purchase of a new key, but not to worry- you get 5 changes before this will happen.  And the only things that count are changing the processor, mobo or C:drive.

If you're not an "old hand" at DVD burning, be prepared for a bit of a learning experience.  Burning DVDs isn't quite as simple and straightforward as a CD-R.  I initially blamed Eximius, but I eventually realized all my problems stemmed from my lack of experience with DVD-Rs.  Unlike CD-Rs, there can be compatibility issues with certain brands of drives, media & players.  My Denon never could be made to work 100% with recordable DVDs, no matter what brand (I actually get 99% to work, but that last 1%!   The devil's in the details...).  Fortunately, my A07 Pioneer burner + Prodisc DVD-Rs + my Pioneer 656A= rock solid, bombproof dependability.  And the Modwright modded player sounds great with my "DVD-Ms", as I call them (thanks, Carlman! ).

Lastly, MCA- sorry to keep you waitin'!  I've got a stack of Eximius discs ready send you as soon as I get a day to get to the post office (new job, new schedule).  I'm eager to see if you hear the same things I do.

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Rob,
I actually was looking for a software like this, because I did not like the upsampling in my player (Philips 963SA).
But have you compared the sound to that of a CD made from the EAC ripped data ?
I am also considering a Behringer SRC2496 to reduce jitter and possibly see the effects of upsampling.
I dont believe one can get more 'info' than what is there in the CD, but if the 'change in resolution' is done through some intelligent heuristics, maybe it will sound better.

[Rob Babcock]

I do use EAC to do all my ripping- Nero is faster, but I've become accustomed to EAC for that.  Eximius claims that the upsampling is a smaller part of the equation than their proprietary algorithm (probably some type of heurists, they're a bit vague for reasons of trade secrets).

I agree that there shouldn't be a way to 'retrieve' info that isn't there, and I have no idea what the DVD2One Audio Remaster software is actually doing.  This is one area, like the "CD-Rs sound better than the original" where I'm trying to suspend the urge to overanalyze and just listen.  To  me, virtually all the Eximius DVDs do sound better than the original CD, some much better.  I have no idea why, but others have been able to easily hear the diff blind.

At any rate, even is the sound wasn't better, just being able to get 2 hours of CD-quality music onto a DVD that will play on a regular DVD player is worth the 50 Euros.