[JLM]

Am very interested in picking up a DAC to mate to a Sony DVP-S7700 for under a grand.

Could anyone comment on how the CIA VDA-1/VAC-1 compares with and without mods to the competition (under $1000) like Tube Dac+, Ack dAck, art DI/O, SMArt DI/O, mensa Art DI/O, Benchmark DAC-1, or PA-3?  Seems to me that Scott Nixon is very busy (hasn't returned my e-mail), the Ack dAck has battery hassles, the art DI/O has compatibility issues, and the PA-3 can lead to an expensive case of upgrade fever.  The Benchmark is a bit more expensive but adds a volume control so that a simpler system with no pre-amp can be assembled.

Secondly, in case of financial squeeze could anyone break down the advantages of various improvements of:

1.  Straight VDA-1  ($350)
2.  Modwright modded VDA-1  ($500)
3.  Straight VDA-1 with VAC-1  ($509)
4.  Modwright modded VDA-1 with VAC-1  ($700)

BTW seems like the amount of work/materials put into Modwright VDA-1/VAC-1 mods by Dan is a terrific value for $191, but with all the options as laid out above the range doubles the price (I know, its still tiny by audiophile standards).

Thanks for your help.

[doug s.]

Am very interested in picking up a DAC to mate to a Sony DVP-S7700 for under a grand.

Could anyone comment on how the CIA VDA-1/VAC-1 compares with and without mods to the competition (under $1000) like Tube Dac+, Ack dAck, art DI/O, SMArt DI/O, mensa Art DI/O, Benchmark DAC-1, or PA-3?  Seems to me that Scott Nixon is very busy (hasn't returned my e-mail), the Ack dAck has battery hassles, the art DI/O has compatibility issues, and the PA-3 can lead to an expensive case of upgrade fever.  The Benchmark  ...

if you decide on the cia dac, i'd skip the spendy p/s upgrade.  why?  cuz ya can find as good or better a lot cheaper on ebay.  a quick search on "14vac" came up with these; i am sure there's more...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4665&item=3853431795
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11168&item=6721187902


at 4a, either of these should be a nice upgrade over the stock cia p/s..  the cia's upgrade p/s is 1.44a.  the hammond transformers are really nice...

doug s.

[dave_c]

JLM what do you got in the rest of your system and what do you like to listen too?

I had option 3 in your list; the Modwright VDA-1 and the Stock VAC-1.  I purchased a VDA-1 used and had it sent directly to Modwright.  At the same time I picked up a new VAC-1 from Dan although I didn’t have it upgraded.  I did pick up a Revelation audio silver PC to go between the two.  I thought they sounded really really nice.  Much better than the NAD C521i that I was using as a transport.  Much more transparent.  From what I remember it did take a while to open up, but once it did the midrange was beautiful.  The NAD integrated I was using at the time was supposed to be a little dark, but I didn’t notice it too much after break in.

I fed it a straight 16/44.1 signal, I’m not sure if it will sound better with a 24/96 signal but it might.  I’ve had positive experiences with upsampling.  Overall I think they’re a great deal.  If anything I would recommend getting the mods and at least the stock VAC-1 at the same time.  If I had to choose between the two I would get the mods.  Its easier to upgrade to the VAC-1 because you won’t have any downtime if/when you decide to upgrade.  If you decide to get the VAC-1 first and the mods later, you have to send your unit it and wait to get it back.  Trust me, that’s no fun!

[JLM]

I should have stated that my goal is not to add a DAC to fix or take a step up from a decent CD player, but to approach the really high end sound without spending a mint.  And I'm not into third hand equipment or DIY/hobbist sort of equipment scenes as my system budget is roughly $5000.


Doug S,

When you look at Dan's pricing structure the modded VDA-1 with modded VAC-1 is only $41 more than the modded VDA-1 with straight VAC-1.  The $41 gets the customer a Bybee filter.

Is a power supply a power supply?  Shouldn't the Bybee filter be worth something?  I've only heard dirty versus clean power once, when listening in an older light industrial neighborhood before and after 11 p.m. on Friday night when apparently the local businesses shut down for the weekend.


Dave C.,

We're building a new house with the condition that I get a listening room (no questions asked).  So its properly designed and will include a new system.  I've already got the speakers, Bob Brines designed/built FTA-2000 (mass loaded floorstanding transmission lines with Fostex F200A full range drivers, 25 - 20,000 Hz in room, 8 ohms, 90 dB/w/m) and a slightly used/newer Sony DVP-S7700.

So now I need the in between stuff.  I've been auditioning amps at home.  Started with a $1500 12 wpc Decware Torii integrated amp (sounded very nice, but 20 - 50 Hz warble test tones showed undamped bass, and had fairly severe break in issues).  Next was a $200 100 wpc JVC RX-ES1SL digital/hybrid receiver (finally hit the 300 hour mark and sounded very good, but lacked the tube midrange magic, still didn't ace the warble test, and was apparently poorly constructed).  Now I'm trying out a homegrown chip amp (it does some things very well, but has horrible power supply hum and FM bleed in).  I'd like to get some tubes into the mix and am considering a Decware CSP pre-amp.

I prefer to listen to female vocalists, jazz, baroque, and some rock at reasonable volume levels (70 - 80 dB).  But I don't tolerate well speakers (typical of single driver designs) that miss the bottom octave.

[doug s.]

...Doug S,

When you look at Dan's pricing structure the modded VDA-1 with modded VAC-1 is only $41 more than the modded VDA-1 with straight VAC-1. The $41 gets the customer a Bybee filter.

Is a power supply a power supply? Shouldn't the Bybee filter be worth something? I've only heard dirty versus clean power once, when listening in an older light industrial neighborhood before and after 11 p.m. on Friday night when apparently the local businesses shut down for the weekend. ...

i agree that clean power is good.  while i've never tried bybees, i know some folk swear by them.  but, some swear *at* them...     i am not taking a position one way or the other.  what i am saying is do not buy the cia vac-1 power supply upgrade at *all*.  if ya want to pay dan for a bybee-modded power supply, buy the hammond on ebay for $10 and have dan wire *that* one up for ya...  (actually, that hammond auction is for *five* - for yust a few bucks more, i am sure that dan could wire up *two* together for a balanced power configuration.)  it's not that i don't think ya should pay dan an extra $41 for a modded p/s.  yust pay him to mod a $10 or $20 one, not a $159 one.    as much as i respect dusty vawter & his work, i cannot imagine that his vac-1 p/s will hold a candle to that hammond.  it would likely cost dusty >$300 to manufacture a power supply w/the nice finish of his vac-1 *and* a 4a hammond tranny.

re: amps, i still think ya might wanna check out the asl amps that bill baker mods over at response audio...

regards,

doug s.

[modwright]

Hi, not sure how much of your budge is allocated for the digital front-end, but there are solutions that don't cost a fortune that would work well for you.

The VDA-1 DAC is very good and is an excellent upgrade to an existing CD/DVD player.  Starting from scratch however, there are other options.

I am very fond of the Sony 999ES, but it is $800 - $1000 stock.   It is, however, a fantastic machine and would give you CD, SACD, DVD playback, allowing for excellent 2CH audio and HT/Video options without penalties.

You might want to look for a used 999ES or similar.  I would be happy to offer you cost-effective mods also if interested.

Thanks,

Dan

[Sotantar]

What about the Shenya.  It also has variable output.  With tube as well, I think

[JLM]

Dan & Sonatar,

I'm currently waiting on delivery of a Sony DVP-S7700 that will be modded for transport use (about a $1000 total investment).

So what I need is ideas for a DAC to match up to a very good transport for around $1000.

It seems like art DI/O, dAck, TubeDac, and now VDA-1 all fall into the camp of, "Great upgrade from a decent CD player".  I just want to do better than that, hopefully to approach the really high end stuff.

It seems that my list is down to the Benchmark DAC 1 or the Perpetual Technologies PA-3.  The DAC 1 includes a volume control so I could at least "get by" without the cost of a pre-amp.  The PA-3 has a market for various upgrades (that could be an expensive tease).

Any opinions?

[doug s.]

Dan & Sonatar,

I'm currently waiting on delivery of a Sony DVP-S7700 that will be modded for transport use (about a $1000 total investment).

So what I need is ideas for a DAC to match up to a very good transport for around $1000.

It seems like art DI/O, dAck, TubeDac, and now VDA-1 all fall into the camp of, "Great upgrade from a decent CD player". I just want to do better than that, hopefully to approach the really high end stuff.

It seems that my list is down to the Benchmark DAC 1 or the Perpetual Technologies PA-3. The DAC 1 includes a volume control so I could at least "get by" without the cost of a pre-amp. The PA-3 has a market for various upgrades (that could be an expensive tease).

Any opinions?

triple yer budget, & ya may do a bit better than the first four dacs ya mention -  *MAYBE*.   the last two won't do it, imo.  all these above options awreddy *do* approach the really high end stuff, imo, & yure yust choosing which one suits *your* tastes.

and, as i said before, for $1k, yure gonna do a *lot* better w/one of the 1st four dacs above, and an active (tubed) preamp - imo, of course!  

doug s.

[modwright]

I am of course a firm supporter of the P.T. P-3A DAC as we have a lot of experience with it.  I am, however, also intrigued with the Benchmark DAC as I have heard a LOT of good things from people who's opinion I regard highly (not just S'phile magazine BTW).

Pro gear is often designed to a higher standard than home audio gear so I am not surprised that it is good.

I may consider mods for the Benchmark at some point.  I am sincerely intrigued and have considered buying one for myself.

Thanks,

Dan

[doug s.]

I am of course a firm supporter of the P.T. P-3A DAC as we have a lot of experience with it.  I am, however, also intrigued with the Benchmark DAC as I have heard a LOT of good things from people who's opinion I regard highly (not just S'phile magazine BTW).

Pro gear is often designed to a higher standard than home audio gear so I am not surprised that it is good.

I may consider mods for the Benchmark at some point.  I am sincerely intrigued and have considered buying one for myself.

Thanks,

Dan

i think nathanm's review of the benchmark a while back goes a long way to help explain why i don't think it's worth spending more than $500 or so on a dac, unless yure ready to shell out *really* big bucks on a digital rig, & yure done upgrading the rest of yer system.  

if ya awreddy have the speakers/amp/preamp/etc, of yer dreams, and that money is burning a hole in yer pocket, then go ahead - pay silly money on digital gear that will be worth 20 cents on the dollar 1-2 years from now.  if you can afford it, that's all that matters, right?  i guess if the spendy stuff made more than an incremental improvement over what one can get for $1k, i wouldn't be so negative about it all...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=13161

ymmv,

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

I had in my former setup a $4800 Audio Logic DAC and the stock CI DAC w/ wal wart and it was 90% of the Audio Logic, even though the AL had a $700 Shunyata power cord!  The transport used was a little Parasound belt drive modded by a rookie...

[doug s.]

I had in my former setup a $4800 Audio Logic DAC and the stock CI DAC w/ wal wart and it was 90% of the Audio Logic, even though the AL had a $700 Shunyata power cord!  The transport used was a little Parasound belt drive modded by a rookie...

and a relative of mine tried the cia dac in his rig, & it wasn't as good as my self-modded art di/o.  all the more reason to not waste, uh, i mean spend a lot of money on digital, imo...  

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

and a relative of mine tried the cia dac in his rig, & it wasn't as good as my self-modded art di/o.doug s.

Then your modded Art must be better than the Channel Islands DAC...

[doug s.]

and a relative of mine tried the cia dac in his rig, & it wasn't as good as my self-modded art di/o.doug s.

Then your modded Art must be better than the Channel Islands DAC...

well, mebbe it was a synergy thing.  point is, it's not which $500 dac is better than the other (well, mebbe this *is* important to some!   ), but it's the fact that *any* of the newer killer $500 dacs out there will get you way-close to the best digital can offer at any price...

yust my opinion, of course!  

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

It's not "synergy".  Has more to do with the digital cable more than anything else, noise in the power line, vibration.  IMO, transport is more important than DAC.  Theory might state otherwise, but transport comes before  DAC.  That's why I had the rookie deal with mine.  The transformation was not subtle.

Dusty says DAC's are like phono cartridges in the compatibility area...

Re, high performance DACs, the Dodson is still m favorite.  Way out of my league, though!

[eico1]

It's not "synergy".  Has more to do with the digital cable more than anything else, noise in the power line, vibration.  IMO, transport is more important than DAC.  Theory might state otherwise, but transport comes before  DAC....

funny that in high-end, what is considered gospel is usually the opposite of what makes technical sense!:)

In that regard, it all comes down to the clock at the actual d/a stage and the analog circuit.

If the designer didn't adequately consider evnironmental conditions, changing a cable or what-not will make the circuit sound different! This may be less likely with pro stuff as someone said earlier.

steve