Brit Living in NJ, Help Needed

spoutmouzert · « **on:** 9 Oct 2016, 02:46 pm »

Hi, just joined audio circle.

I rushed putting my system together when i emigrated from the UK to New Jersey. I I bought a pair of Dali Helicon 400 (mark I) as they passed the WAF. The rest of the system contains a Belles Soloist Integrated and Simaudio Equinox SE CD player, wireworld platinum eclispe 6 interconnect & Audio Art Cable Classic SC-5 Speaker Cable. My room maybe partly to blame but generally the system sounds lifeless, with little soundstage (better when i play vinyl). I am not feeling/falling in love with the speakers and do not like the bass response (which is often reported). I would like to change the speakers and was wondering if you could help. I have an extremely large cd collection (and have recently bought a used Lumin D1, but unfortunately not set up yet) covering all kinds of music. I am thinking 8ohm with better sensitivity would be a better option. Looking to spend around $3000-4000 used. Some contenders include Revel F206 or F208, Tannoy DC8 or DC8T, ATC SCM40, JA Pulsars (maybe too much $), PBN Liberty, Aerial 10T (never see them used) but they must have grills as sometimes kids go in the basement. Maybe Monitors with stands would be better option? I am hoping the flickr link works so you can see my room (excuse the feet!). I want to fall in love with my large music collection again! Looking for good bass & soundstage and speakers that can play all kinds of music (sometimes I'm partial to deep electronic music). In some ways because my taste is so vast i am not particularly looking for ultra revealing speakers (Nora Jones speakers i think you call them!). Looking forward to the NY audio show so i can hear some systems. Thanks for all the help, cheers Paul https://www.flickr.com/gp/97665913@N06/a5G6d9

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 03:12 pm »

Welcome Paul

Small soundstage is due your room be too narrow.
Seems the right side is more large or Iam wrong?

roscoe65 · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 03:57 pm »

Your room looks challenging. Can you give length x width dimensions? You might need to rethink you layout.

My instincts tell me you will do better with a near field setup, and that if bass is important you may wish to use an active subwoofer. That being said, the first speakers I would audition would be Harbeth.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 03:59 pm »

Never heard the Dali or a Belle amp. I suspect the Dali to be the culprit but I can be wrong. But instead of trying to change things wholesale...why not try for the last expensive or cumbersome part? Shop for warmer speaker cables. How is the bass you have? Is it accurate or boomy? I usually associate uninspiring sound with colder, clinical delivery and sometimes, for me, that means excessive control of the woofers.

From the cables, I would move to speakers. Excellent sounding speakers for me, with high WAF...Harbeth. The smallest one, the P3ESR is excellent, accurate but very musical. Not too much bass to speak off but I have never missed it when playing them.

Finally, I would deal with the amp.

I am pretty sure that your system will improve somewhere between the cable and the speaker.

BTW, how is the quality of power in your house?

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 04:01 pm »

Do you hear bass slap from the walls? If then, you can also use some room treatments.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 04:02 pm »

Details: xover is not a sweet peach three-and-a-half–way sensitivity 88dB.
Stereophile measurements:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/dali-helicon-400-mk2-loudspeaker-measurements

ArthurDent · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 04:14 pm »

Greetings & Welcome to AC Paul

Tough room. I fight a similar 'narrowness' factor, how wide is your room? As you are open to used speakers you should check the Trading Post http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=109.0 . Some very good stuff there that might work for you. We have some top notch speaker builders participating at AC, worth considering in your search.

Good luck with the system adjustments, I know I'm still working on mine.

rodge827 · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 05:07 pm »

Hi Paul,

Welcome to AC and the great state of NJ!

Just so happens I have a great pair of Shelby+Kroll Nano Monitors with matching musical subs that I will be listing here soon. These monitors send a huge and spooky sound stage and image like champs. Nora Jones will give you her personal best as well as any other music you pass through them. I'm in NJ and probably a short drive from you.

http://kroll.thebelfordgroup.com/

Review of the Reference Speaker: http://stereomojo.com/SHELBYKROLLReferenceStandardMonitor1.0andReferenceWooferMonitor1.0.htm/SHELBYKROLLReferenceStandardMonitor1.0andReferenceWooferMonitor1.0.htm

Moderator I posted this since Paul is currently unable to answer PM's due to the lack of postings. If you feel this post warrants a deletion please do so.

Chris
609-709-6792

Phil A · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 05:56 pm »

Welcome to AC! Do you have anything you can take measurements with (RTA, PC with USB microphone and appropriate software)?

shadowlight · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 06:06 pm »

Paul, Welcome to AC and NJ. If you want to try some wall treatment let me know. I have some diy spare ones that you can have @ no charge. I am in Princeton, NJ area.

SteveFord · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 07:33 pm »

Sorry, I thought you were asking for help about the New Jersey part.
Carry on.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Oct 2016, 07:46 pm »

Room looks waaaay small, I'd never put a big speaker (like those on your shortlist) in there, so my advise:

* go with a nearfield setup = takes the room outta play, as much as possible

* use a single driver monitor, or a simple 2-way monitor

* add a powered sub (if necessary). With flexible placement, crossover and output options you'll get better bottom fill and easier room integration.

* add acoustic panels at first reflection points

* throw a comforter over that large reflective TV

Good luck. From the looks of that room, my gut says you will be challenged whatever you do.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 02:20 am »

Quote from: SteveFord on 9 Oct 2016, 07:33 pm

Sorry, I thought you were asking for help about the New Jersey part.
Carry on.

richidoo · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 11:44 am »

DC8T is awesome, one of my favorite speakers of all time. Very natural tone, simple low order crossover, coaxial driver, good bass for a medium sized room. Very high WAF. I just sold some Revel F208, Tannoy is better, imo.

JLM · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 01:05 pm »

Quote from: sunnydaze on 9 Oct 2016, 07:46 pm

Room looks waaaay small, I'd never put a big speaker (like those on your shortlist) in there, so my advise:

* go with a nearfield setup = takes the room outta play, as much as possible

* use a single driver monitor, or a simple 2-way monitor

* add a powered sub (if necessary). With flexible placement, crossover and output options you'll get better bottom fill and easier room integration.

* add acoustic panels at first reflection points

* throw a comforter over that large reflective TV

Good luck. From the looks of that room, my gut says you will be challenged whatever you do.

+1

Unfortunately no stand-mounted speaker is kid/pet friendly.

Are you open to using headphones? Honestly some rooms/situations just don't lend themselves to hi-end audio. Best to admit it and move on.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 01:56 pm »

A Brit living in NJ??? You DO need help!!!

Just kidding. Welcome to the sweet spot.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 02:05 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 10 Oct 2016, 01:05 pm

+1

Unfortunately no stand-mounted speaker is kid/pet friendly.

I disagree.......
Stacked concrete blocks are pretty darn solid and stable, if you can tolerate the look.

Cosmetics and be improved with paint or wrapping blocks in veneer, fabric, heavy rope, or whatever the imagination conjures.

Google on "concrete blocks as speaker stands" for plenty of examples and images.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 02:26 pm »

Alternatively, to safe floorspace or eliminate toppling, monitors can be hung from ceiling with something like this:

Chain can also be used, but drilling into speaker cabinet is required.

vtvu · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 02:44 pm »

Where are you in NJ?
I am in Farmingdale NJ and have experience setting up systems.
PM me if you need help.
Vinh

roscoe65 · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Oct 2016, 03:12 pm »

I'll review what I see in OP's question/dillemma:

1. Dissatisfaction with bass quantity/quality.
2. Lack of soundstaging, especially with digital ("improved with vinyl")
3. *Very* tight and challenging room.
4. Need to accommodate children and prying fingers.
5. Budget of $3,000 - $4,000 USD (Op wrote "used", but I'm assuming he means $USD).

My recommendations are for speakers and digital. OP needs to match speakers to his space. I would recommend:

1. Harbeth P3ESR - he can get these for about $1,800 secondhand with stands. He can put the very small speakers on a shelf when not in use to keep out of reach of kids. ($1,800)

2. Rhythmik F12G-SE servo subwoofer. This uses the lightweight GR Research driver that can be crossed over fairly high using either the line level or speaker level input. ($1,000)

3. Digital - I would use a higher quality DAC from the CD player. If vinyl improves soundstaging then digitial will definitely be improved ($500 to $1,000)

This fits in OP's budget, has a good resale value if he wants to trade later, and lets him keep most of his system. He can spend $200-400 on room treatments and still stay within budget.