[ACHiPo]

Hmmm flipped on the phono stage when I got home, did a few things around the house for about 45 minutes.  When I sat down for a listen things were quite quiet--no static, and no tube rush until volume >3:00, yet a tap on the case gave an audible noise from the speakers.  Anyway, the music sounds great, and things are nice and quiet.  Will try again in the morning and see if it's a time-of-day thing.

[FullRangeMan]

The sockets are clean?
A tap on the chassis always will made a speaker sound, hence the tubes are electro-mech devices attached to the case.
A tap on a hot tube can made a short circuit on that tube, I would not do it.

[ACHiPo]

The sockets are clean?
A tap on the chassis always will made a speaker sound, hence the tubes are electro-mech devices attached to the case.
A tap on a hot tube can made a short circuit on that tube, I would not do it.

Gustavo,
I cleaned all of the tube pins with a Caig Gold pen, then wiggled the tubes in and out as I inserted them.  There is no visible dust on the sockets.

I only tapped on the chassis, not the tube itself.  I only mention it because when I first inserted the 4 Russian tubes along with the new 12AX7, I had to rap pretty firmly on the chassis to get any noise, which to me suggested they had significantly better microphonics than the tubes they replaced.  Now after about 20 hours the microphonics are comparable to the old tubes.

Listening this morning and things sound amazing.  No static or crackle--just like last night--so hopefully things are burned in.  Of course there's also the possibility that the static/crackle could be RF.

Regardless I'm happily listening to Stevie Wonder's The Secret Life of Plants and it sounds amazing.  The Russian 6N23P tubes are definitely worth the money!

Evan

[S Clark]

I've used them also in my Dodd phono pre with results equal or better than most of the 6dj8 alternatives.  The 6N1P are pretty similar in most regards. 

[Escott1377]

I've used them also in my Dodd phono pre with results equal or better than most of the 6dj8 alternatives.  The 6N1P are pretty similar in most regards.

I own both, but have read the 6N1P supposedly sounds better???

I can't tell any difference.  Both sound as good or better than the Ediswans that I have in my DAC and probably $100 less for the pair?

[brother love]

I picked up a matched pair of Russian 6N23P "Rocket" tubes and put them into my Wavestream phono stage.  Initial impressions are positive, with the sound at least as good as NOS 6DJ8s from Siemens and Amperex (US JAN).  The phono stage seems to have a little more gain as well, but that could be due to the unknown age and life of the tubes they replaced.

Does anyone else have experience with these tubes?  The matched pair was a bargain compared to NOS tubes I've found other places, and I've got 20 tested/unmatched tubes coming in from Kiev that were a real deal at $7.50 each with free shipping!

rb2013 on head-fi has an excellent review guide of the Voskhod Rockets 6n23p tube rankings    :

http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595

[S Clark]

I own both, but have read the 6N1P supposedly sounds better???

I can't tell any difference.  Both sound as good or better than the Ediswans that I have in my DAC and probably $100 less for the pair?

Honestly, I'm not sure I could tell the difference if I played them back to back.  Even in a Dodd amp that came stock with 6N1P, when replaced with the much more expensive 6H30pi the differences were noticeable, but not huge. 

[ACHiPo]

Well I've now got several more to play with...


 

[poseidonsvoice]

Honestly, I'm not sure I could tell the difference if I played them back to back.  Even in a Dodd amp that came stock with 6N1P, when replaced with the much more expensive 6H30pi the differences were noticeable, but not huge.

Deleted text.

Best,
Anand.

[S Clark]

Anand,
I have had the 6N1P in a Dodd preamp with gain, but switched it out to 6H30dr almost immediately.  In that application the more expensive tube provided much more detail.  I also have one of the original Dodd battery preamps, the model that uses two tubes.  In it, after extensive tube swapping, I've found that a Valvo PCC88 d getter was my best option.

[poseidonsvoice]

Anand,
I have had the 6N1P in a Dodd preamp with gain, but switched it out to 6H30dr almost immediately.  In that application the more expensive tube provided much more detail.  I also have one of the original Dodd battery preamps, the model that uses two tubes.  In it, after extensive tube swapping, I've found that a Valvo PCC88 d getter was my best option.

Thanks!

I had misread your original post, so my question didn't seem relevant.

Thanks for clarifying.

The below is not meant for you but just everybody in general:

The only thing I'll say is that the 6N1P, 6H30, and 6N23P/6922/6DJ8/PCC88 are all very different tubes with different ideal operating points even though they have 6.3V filaments; except the PCC88 which is 7V.  The plate impedance which can dictate the output impedance are very different. The 6N1P being the highest. In addition the mu or amplification factor of the 6DJ8 and 6N1P are very similar but the 6H30 is much lower. The 6H30 requires a larger amount of filament current than the other 2. The 6H30 also requires significantly more bias current than the 6N1P or 6DJ8 (and equivalents) to set a good operating point with minimum THD. With a cathode follower circuit (as opposed to a regular gain stage), you can interchange them and the only thing that will change is the output impedance, but again, if the circuit was designed for lower current biased tubes like the 6N1P or 6DJ8 and if you sub the 6H30, it won't sound right. With a regular gain stage, all bets are off unless you rebias the circuit for the tube in question. In addition if your circuit does not have the filament voltage set to 7V for a PCC88 tube, all bets are off.

I'm just more conservative with my designs (I build for myself) and I do not swap between these 3 types even though you won't harm the component in most situations (excepting subbing a 6H30 in a circuit meant for the 6DJ8 with the attendant small filament transformer). It's like interchanging between between 12AX7's, 12AT7's and 12AU7's - all three of those tubes are extraordinarily different even though they are 12V filaments. Each one can be optimized in the right circuit. Tube rolling is all fine and dandy but one may get a false sonic impression of the circuit/amp/preamp/phono stage if one uses a different tube than what the unit was designed for. To complicate things, some tube "designers" don't know that and will encourage to experiment away. It is not what I would advise though.

Best,
Anand.

[ACHiPo]

In addition the mu or amplification factor of the 6DJ8 and 6N1P are very similar but the 6H30 is much lower. The 6H30 requires a larger amount of filament current than the other 2. The 6H30 also requires significantly more bias current than the 6N1P or 6DJ8 (and equivalents) to set a good operating point with minimum THD.
Best,
Anand.

Anand,
That's interesting, as I noticed what seemed like more gain when I installed 4 6H30Ps.  Of course that could be due to the old 6DJ8s being tired.  I'll have to look for the 6N1P--I hadn't heard of them before now.
AC

[poseidonsvoice]

Anand,
That's interesting, as I noticed what seemed like more gain when I installed 4 6H30Ps.  Of course that could be due to the old 6DJ8s being tired.  I'll have to look for the 6N1P--I hadn't heard of them before now.
AC

6H30 -> http://www.glass-ware.com/GlassWare_True_Curves.htm

Do a search for Svetlana's 6N1P. It's a nice tube, and when properly biased is detailed but a bit polite sounding. The 6DJ8 and variants are more robust. The 6N6P even more and for many is on an even tier with the 6H30 without the attendant cost due to the latter being nearly unobtanium.

My favorite among small signal 9 pin tubes is the 6N6P. With 8 pin tubes, the party changes and with DHT's even more. Too many favorites to list depending on application.

Here is an extensive review from Headfi on various 6N23P variants: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/8595

And here is a larger general review of 6922/6DJ8 variants: http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes

Best,
Anand.

[S Clark]

Absolutely all these are not interchangeable in all circuits.  One of my Dodd preamps is designed for the 6H30dr and the other is  not.  Gary and I had several conversations about tubes before his passing.  As far as the 7dj8/PCC88, it seems happy in the older Dodd design over a dozen or so 6dj8's for which it was designed.   

[Photon46]

After more than twenty years of tube rolling the 6dj8/6922/6n23p's etc. in various components, I'd say take anyone's opinion about whether certain tube sounds "better" will a massive amount of skepticism. Every component and circuit is different. I've heard the 6n23p sound fabulous in some applications and so dead, lifeless, and dull in another you'd hardly believe it was the same tube.

[S Clark]

After more than twenty years of tube rolling the 6dj8/6922/6n23p's etc. in various components, I'd say take anyone's opinion about whether certain tube sounds "better" will a massive amount of skepticism. Every component and circuit is different. I've heard the 6n23p sound fabulous in some applications and so dead, lifeless, and dull in another you'd hardly believe it was the same tube.

I think most everyone responding in this thread knows and agrees with everything you said.  Every application will sound different.  Tubes, power cords, magic rocks, whatever... When someone says they hear something +-, accept that they do, and understand that you may not. 

[Photon46]

I think most everyone responding in this thread knows and agrees with everything you said.  Every application will sound different.  Tubes, power cords, magic rocks, whatever... When someone says they hear something +-, accept that they do, and understand that you may not.

No disagreement whatsoever No offense intended against anyone.

[Guy 13]

I think most everyone responding in this thread knows and agrees with everything you said.  Every application will sound different.  Tubes, power cords, magic rocks, whatever... When someone says they hear something +-, accept that they do, and understand that you may not.

S Clark well said ! 

[danabunner]

And here is a larger general review of 6922/6DJ8 variants: http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes

Best,
Anand.

Thanks for sharing.  While it is just one person's opinion, using their specific gear, in a sighted short-term test, it was informative and well written.  I've heard a few of those tubes and, in general, find myself agreeing with his observations on those tubes.

I also appreciate your comments on pointing out that even though some tubes are pin-compatible, that doesn't mean they are equivalent / appropriate substitutes.  Tube characteristics vary considerably and can result in significant nonlinearity in a circuit.  I read about people making all kinds of odd substitutions.   They spend thousands of dollars on speakers, cables, amps, and preamps and then stick in odd tubes which can throw their entire system out of balance.

I have equipment using 6DJ8-type, 6SN7-type, 12AU7-Type, etc.  I tend to stay in the family and use those tubes which sound best to me.  I don't go sticking 12BH7, 6SL7, 6H30, and whatever into my gear to hear how it sounds.  I trust the original designer to have laid out a circuit which optimizes for a specific tube type.  When one puts in a tube which is only semi-equivalent for the design, who knows what havoc they are inflicting?