[S Clark]

I'm taking advantage of Danny's good nature in putting this thread in his circle as it has no natural fit at AC, yet I truly believe this is an important topic.  For many of us, the search for true SOTA gear is beyond our financial abilities or priorities, yet we have a passion for great sound and what the best that we can reasonably afford.  It's my position that this leads to DIY and used gear as the best bang for our $1k, 5k, 10K+ expenditures, since a true, no holds barred, assault on SOTA  can now move into the 6 or 7 figure range. 

I've looked for used gear that was raved about 3-5 years ago... award winning stuff, but now not as shiny and new.  My system is comprised of kit speakers, used amp, used cables,  heavily discounted pre, used TT, used phonostage- shoot, even used cartridges.  You can look at my sig if interested. 


So, if you were starting today, looking to get the best sound for your budget, what are you searching for on Audiogon, our AC for sale circles, the various Audiomarts, even Fleabay?   Which amps? Preamps? Sources? Speakers? Etc...
 

[ACHiPo]

Scott,
Interesting topic!  Looking for yesteryear's SOTA (or at least widely reviewed and admired) is how I bootstrapped a pretty great system (in my not-so-humble opinion).

Soooo...I'd recommend some of the gear I've owned (and still own) as great bang-for-the-buck:

Jeff Rowland Consummate--~$10k for a full line and phono stage combo when it was last offered, but it was on the market for 10 years or so, and started with a list price around $6k.  Using the "buy good stuff for 1/2 of list and you won't get burned too bad" philosophy, you could get a SOTA set up for $3k to $5k and have a pre-amp that will compete with just about anything.

Lehman Black Cube--great little phono stage that I think is still made.  Not SOTA, but a used one for $200 - $300 will serve you well starting out.

Well Tempered Reference turntable.  For ~$2k - $3k you're getting a turntable that is extremely reliable and able to hold its own against current rigs >$10k.

[Hank]

Yes - good topic.  A year or so ago, I bought an Odyssey amp from a guy on eBay.  He happened to be Klaus' neighbor, so I called Klaus, negotiated a deal, the guy took the amp to Klaus, he modded it and I have a better than new amp at a fraction of the cost.  I also bought a pair of Acoustat Model 3's that sound better than nearly any speaker I've heard.  I have all the parts to upgrade the interfaces and look forward to even better SQ.  And, a used Wilson Benesche Circle TT - it's in the closet, but some day I'll take it out, set it up with the top-line AT cartridge and see what the current buzz is about vinyl.  Unrelated to audio, a few months ago I bought a JVC RS25 projector for $750 - it was $7,995 when new 6 years ago   Fantastic PQ and it came with a spare lamp

[Norman Tracy]

Pretend shopping, what a way to burn through the rest of a lunch hour.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-devialet-120-2016-07-18-integrateds-97520-ashland-or



https://www.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-dynaudio-contour-s-1-4-high-gloss-rosewood-stunning-2016-07-29-speakers-85260-scottsdale-az



Not bad for $5200 2016 dollars system.

[S Clark]

Yep, the 50% rule has been my guiding principle over the years.  I broke that a couple of time, especially in the last few years when I bought stuff from Gary Dodd based more on his need than mine- but that wasn't about value... 
I still don't know how I could get better sound for any sane price than building a set of LS9 speakers from a kit.  And having huge line source speakers then required amps with some major power. I had narrowed the list to three and waited to see which came available first... hence my aquisition of a modded/upgraded Moscode 401 HR.  Cables were easy.  Sign up for the trials, find what works in your system, and in two years they will start showing up used... Wywires and TWL. 

I suspect that the best bang for the buck right now might be Dodd stuff.  7-8 years back it was considered top of the line stuff at good prices.  Now I would bet that $2500-$2800 would buy an amp and a battery pre that would be extremely high quality.  I suspect that McCormack might also be at that quality level. 

Evan--I don't know much about the Rowland stuff, other than an unfortunate matching with a pair of LS9's at the RMAF many years back.  I noticed you are using m-60's.  The Atma-Sphere line is consistently lauded here. 

Is the Devialet stuff the latest/greatest stuff that will soon fall out of favor??? It has gotten lots of buzz over the last year or so. 

[HAL]

If I were not building OB line arrays, these would be on my short list of used speakers.  Keeping them running might be the only problem with the drivers. 

[S Clark]

If I were not building OB line arrays, these would be on my short list of used speakers.  Keeping them running might be the only problem with the drivers. 

What are these, Rich?

[HAL]

They were on USA Audio Mart.  Not sure if they are still there, as an identical looking pair is now at PS Audio HQ in CO with Paul McGowan.

[ACHiPo]

They were on USA Audio Mart.  Not sure if they are still there, as an identical looking pair is now at PS Audio HQ in CO with Paul McGowan.

Look like big Infinitis?

[charmerci]

Look like big Infinitis?

Yup, their top of the line at the time in the 90's.

I listened to them in Alexandria, VA (D.C.) many years (a couple of decades) ago at an audio dealer, frankly  I didn't much care for them - at least the way they were set up there. Only thing I remember about them now was that the sound seemed to be "floating" between the speakers.

[HAL]

Those are the Infinity IRS Reference V speakers.  The ones I heard in Alexandria were in a tiny room with all the bass response in the basement. 

Earlier in 1979 a pair was at the audio show in the same area.  They were in a large hall.  Best reproduced music I have ever heard to date.  Big difference between the two different setups.

[ACHiPo]

Those are the Infinity IRS Reference V speakers.  The ones I heard in Alexandria were in a tiny room with all the bass response in the basement. 

Earlier in 1979 a pair was at the audio show in the same area.  They were in a large hall.  Best reproduced music I have ever heard to date.  Big difference between the two different setups.

Didn't HP use part of these as his reference system (maybe the sub towers?)

[HAL]

Maybe. 

I know he had the earlier Infinity hybrid system with the Maggie bass panels, Strathern mids and EMIT tweeters.  Had a sub as well.

[Jonathon Janusz]

I would think maybe shopping for DACs could be a value leader using this approach.  With the tech in DACs changing arguably faster than home theater receivers, there should usually be a good assortment of last-year's greatest at a decent discount.  Particularly, I think, if somebody was looking for a NOS DAC/something made before high-rez/DSD was the big thing.

I'm reminded seeing here in the AC classifieds Tranquility DACs that started around $2K going for about a quarter of that pretty consistently.  Pair that with a pre-2012 mac mini off of ebay or such and someone could have a whole front end with some decent cables and maybe even a linear power supply for the mac for less than $1K that in 16/44 can still throw punches with some very expensive gear.

[OzarkTom]

So, if you were starting today, looking to get the best sound for your budget, what are you searching for on Audiogon, our AC for sale circles, the various Audiomarts, even Fleabay?   Which amps? Preamps? Sources? Speakers? Etc...

That is becoming more and more easy, keep searching for the Acoustat X or Monitor III's or IV's with the DD servo amps. You do not need preamp or speaker cables. Many owners have happily owned these speakers for 40-50 years and are now passing them on to the next owners.

B_____ here on AC has owned his IV's now since 1982, I sold him this pair back then. He owns one of the circles on AC and goes to the audio shows every year. He has not found any replacements.

I have found several pairs lately on Audiogon, searchtempest, and Craiglook. They have been priced $11oo, $1500, $1995 for the pair, some has had their amps modded. These ESL's will not break and will last you 40-50 more years also and you will probably never buy another speaker or amp. Another tip is watch your local estate sales.

These are very fast, detailed, transparent, and dynamic. The worst cons are they are big, very small sweet spot, and never expect great imaging when you stand up. Do expect SQ that is in the $100K-$4ooK systems

Read post 445 here and see what this person has owned if you think I am pulling your leg.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6982-What-is-the-best-speaker-you-have-ever-owned&p=304447&viewfull=1#post304447

[ACHiPo]

I would think maybe shopping for DACs could be a value leader using this approach.  With the tech in DACs changing arguably faster than home theater receivers, there should usually be a good assortment of last-year's greatest at a decent discount.  Particularly, I think, if somebody was looking for a NOS DAC/something made before high-rez/DSD was the big thing.

I'm reminded seeing here in the AC classifieds Tranquility DACs that started around $2K going for about a quarter of that pretty consistently.  Pair that with a pre-2012 mac mini off of ebay or such and someone could have a whole front end with some decent cables and maybe even a linear power supply for the mac for less than $1K that in 16/44 can still throw punches with some very expensive gear.

Oh yeah, DACs...gonna stick with my Gustard on that one--at $769 delivered it's definitely worth buying new.  Now if somebody wanted to sell me a dCS or Meridian or Bricasti for the same price then I'm all in, otherwise I'll stick with what I've got.

[ACHiPo]

That is becoming more and more easy, keep searching for the Acoustat X or Monitor III's or IV's with the DD servo amps. You do not need preamp or speaker cables. Many owners have happily owned these speakers for 40-50 years and are now passing them on to the next owners.

B_____ here on AC has owned his IV's now since 1982, I sold him this pair back then. He owns one of the circles on AC and goes to the audio shows every year. He has not found any replacements.

I have found several pairs lately on Audiogon, searchtempest, and Craiglook. They have been priced $11oo, $1500, $1995 for the pair, some has had their amps modded. These ESL's will not break and will last you 40-50 more years also and you will probably never buy another speaker or amp. Another tip is watch your local estate sales.

These are very fast, detailed, transparent, and dynamic. The worst cons are they are big, very small sweet spot, and never expect great imaging when you stand up. Do expect SQ that is in the $100K-$4ooK systems

Read post 445 here and see what this person has owned if you think I am pulling your leg.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6982-What-is-the-best-speaker-you-have-ever-owned&p=304447&viewfull=1#post304447

Tom,
Good points as used speakers are often a really good deal, if for no other reason than the fact that they're big, heavy, and hard to demo/sell.  I've seen Eggleston speakers (Art Dudley's highly reviewed brand) for 10% to 20% of new price and I still passed--too hard to get home.

Speaking of Art, I found his Listener magazine was an extremely reliable source of good reviews.  Stuff Art (and his staff liked) I liked when I heard, so good fodder for the SOTA search.

AC

[Folsom]

SOTA... not much talk about it in the thread so far...

These are helpful perhaps?

[OzarkTom]

SOTA... not much talk about it in the thread so far...

These are helpful perhaps?

If you ever hear those Acoustats with DD amps, you will say SOTA.

[bdp24]

Maybe. 

I know he had the earlier Infinity hybrid system with the Maggie bass panels, Strathern mids and EMIT tweeters.  Had a sub as well.

HP made news by using the m/t panels of the Infinity IRS with the bass panels of the Magneplanar Tympani speakers, to create the IRS/Tympani hybrid, a full-range (the Tympani bass panels play very low---below 30Hz, especially when wall-loaded) all-planar loudspeaker. I don't remember if it was the 2-panel woofers per side of the Tympani T-IV's, or the 4-panel mono woofer of the Tympani T-3. I recently picked up a pair of restored T-IV's to try the woofer panels (two panels per side, each panel 16" wide x 6' tall) with my planar speakers. It takes a LOT of floor space!