Reassurance for those contemplating using a miniDSP unit with vinyl playback

andyr · « **on:** 5 Aug 2016, 02:33 am »

I recently changed over my 3-way analogue active XO to a 4-way digital active XO, in conjunction with adding a pair of subs (hence the 4-way).

While contemplating doing this, I had been concerned that maybe the A2D and D2A conversions inherent in using a digital XO would degrade my vinyl listening experience ... but I'm happy to say I can't detect any degradation from the miniDSP 10x10Hd unit which I'm using.

And I get the advantage of DSP - so room-induced peaks in the measured FR of each driver can be reduced, to give a flat result. Which is a big advantage over an analogue XO.

So I heartily recommend miniDSP - even if you listen to analogue sources.

Interestingly enough, SQ was then significantly increased by using a 12v Sbooster PS in place of the 12v Meanwell SMPS which comes with the miniDSP unit.

Andy

Dynky · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 05:14 am »

Nice to hear that the switch to the miniDSP has turned out so well for your set.

May I ask which specific XO you were using before?

I'm currently switching between a dBX234XS + Trinnov ST2 on one hand and the Trinnov on its own on the other (which can handle 2-way XO as well), but still undecided over which of the 2 sounds best.
Contemplating about giving a Klark Teknik DN8000 a try for the sole purpose of XO duties, but that would mean that I get a double AD/DA, once in the Klark Teknik + again in the Trinnov. (using the set for vinyl as well as digital stereo playback)

andyr · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 05:31 am »

Quote from: Dynky on 5 Aug 2016, 05:14 am

Nice to hear that the switch to the miniDSP has turned out so well for your set.

May I ask which specific XO you were using before?

I'm currently switching between a dBX234XS + Trinnov ST2 on one hand and the Trinnov on its own on the other (which can handle 2-way XO as well), but still undecided over which of the 2 sounds best.
Contemplating about giving a Klark Teknik DN8000 a try for the sole purpose of XO duties, but that would mean that I get a double AD/DA, once in the Klark Teknik + again in the Trinnov. (using the set for vinyl as well as digital stereo playback)

Yes, the Elliott Sound Products P09.

Don't know the Trinnov but AIUI, the dBX unit does not have good SQ unless you go for its high-priced upgrades (from someone in Europe?). If you're only doing 2-way active, you should be able to use the new miniDSP 2x4Hd ... which is not expensive.

Andy

SteveRB · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 08:56 pm »

'Sound Quality' aside: It's no longer analog.

andyr · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 09:03 pm »

Quote from: SteveRB on 5 Aug 2016, 08:56 pm

'Sound Quality' aside: It's no longer analog.

Sure - but it sounds better ... due to the DSP capabilities (that an analogue XO can't provide).

DSP is used to:
a. delay the mains to line up with the subs (which are located about 5' further away from my ears than the Maggie bass panels), and
b. reduce room-induced peaks.

IMO digital is the way of the future - even for vinyl sources!

Andy

SteveRB · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 09:06 pm »

digital is the way of the present...

not sure that your 'better' is why people listen to LPs.

andyr · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: SteveRB on 5 Aug 2016, 09:06 pm

digital is the way of the present...

You're absolutely correct ... I'm just behind the times!

Quote from: SteveRB on 5 Aug 2016, 09:06 pm

not sure that your 'better' is why people listen to LPs.

So you would rather listen to your vinyl with the peaks which result from room modes ... rather than when you are able to cancel them out by PEQ?

Andy

SteveRB · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 09:15 pm »

Quote from: andyr on 5 Aug 2016, 09:12 pm

So you would rather listen to your vinyl with the peaks which result from room modes ... rather than when you are able to cancel them out by PEQ?

yup.

I do like PEQ on the low low end. GR-Research Servo subs do a great job. But, I'm not interested in AD>DA for anything above 80Hz.

andyr · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Aug 2016, 10:40 pm »

Quote from: SteveRB on 5 Aug 2016, 09:15 pm

But, I'm not interested in AD>DA for anything above 80Hz.

I was like that for many years - but now I've made the move, I'm very glad I have.

Andy

audioguy213 · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 02:59 am »

what phono stage were you using?
It may not matter any more if you are making it digital, maybe you can save a few thousand bucks and use a cheaper TT too.

andyr · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 03:15 am »

Quote from: audioguy213 on 6 Aug 2016, 02:59 am

what phono stage were you using?
It may not matter any more if you are making it digital, maybe you can save a few thousand bucks and use a cheaper TT too.

Que?

I have no idea what you are referring to? Of course I want to use the best-sounding TT, arm, cart, phono stage and preamp I can afford!

Andy

galyons · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 03:33 am »

Quote from: andyr on 6 Aug 2016, 03:15 am

Of course I want to use the best-sounding TT, arm, cart, phono stage and preamp I can afford!

Andy

Why in the world would you care? You are listening to digitized sound, not analog music. Not being snarky, just a statement of fact.

Cheers,
Geary

JDUBS · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 03:47 am »

Quote from: galyons on 6 Aug 2016, 03:33 am

Why in the world would you care? You are listening to digitized sound, not analog music. Not being snarky, just a statement of fact.

Cheers,
Geary

Wow, this is the exact wrong way to look at this. OF COURSE feeding the BEST signal possible into an A->D converter is important. Its asinine to think that wouldn't matter.

"Snarky"...lol.

-Jim

andyr · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 04:14 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 6 Aug 2016, 03:47 am

Wow, this is the exact wrong way to look at this. OF COURSE feeding the BEST signal possible into an A->D converter is important. Its asinine to think that wouldn't matter.

"Snarky"...lol.

-Jim

Aah, nice to see there's at least one other person on this thread who thinks the way I do, Jim.

Andy

galyons · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 04:50 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 6 Aug 2016, 03:47 am

OF COURSE feeding the BEST signal possible into an A->D converter is important. ....

-Jim

Once you have exceeded the resolution of the ADC, everything else is wasted. To think otherwise is simple ignorance.

Cheers,
Geary

andyr · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 05:33 am »

Quote from: galyons on 6 Aug 2016, 04:50 am

Once you have exceeded the resolution of the ADC, everything else is wasted. To think otherwise is simple ignorance.

Cheers,
Geary

However, technology advances, year on year. So, yes, the resolution of the miniDSP unit, currently, may not be ideal (although, as I said, I haven't noticed any degradation of SQ) but next year or the year after, I will be able to upgrade it. So it makes no sense at all to downgrade my vinyl front end.

Andy

audioguy213 · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 05:41 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 6 Aug 2016, 03:47 am

Wow, this is the exact wrong way to look at this. OF COURSE feeding the BEST signal possible into an A->D converter is important. Its asinine to think that wouldn't matter.

"Snarky"...lol.

-Jim

Why?
You are digitizing it,

You have lost every single element of why you have an ANALOGUE front end.

Just download tidal if that is what you want and feed it through your digital EQ and crossovers and save the money on the nice TT and phono pre because you have rendered them irrelevant. That is the best DIGITAL feed for a DIGITAL processor.

You are now dependent on the poorest AD stage in your chain of components, and regardless you are listening to digital playback.

You may find that "better", good for you. I like to stream things to a nice DAC myself,
then I switch inputs and listen to a proper analogue front end. It's not the same,

Stop snarking up my assine.

andyr · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 05:52 am »

Quote from: audioguy213 on 6 Aug 2016, 05:41 am

Why?
You are digitizing it,

You have lost every single element of why you have an ANALOGUE front end.

Just download tidal if that is what you want and feed it through your digital EQ and crossovers and save the money on the nice TT and phono pre because you have rendered them irrelevant. That is the best DIGITAL feed for a DIGITAL processor.

You are now dependent on the poorest AD stage in your chain of components, and regardless you are listening to digital playback.

You may find that "better", good for you. I like to stream things to a nice DAC myself,
then I switch inputs and listen to a proper analogue front end. It's not the same,

Stop snarking up my assine.

Your argument makes sense, Geary, in one sense only.

If the LPs you are listening to were recorded on analogue tape then, yes, digitising will lose something. But not many LPs, today, are recorded on analogue tape (Tacet LPs are, I believe) - so your point is moot.

Andy

PMAT · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 06:25 am »

Recording sound was ahead of playback sound for decades. The vinyl/cart/table delivery of that, is a favorite for analog lovers. Even digital recording can have tubed analog microphone sound.
It's the playback delivery that is the final sound for shaping our impressions.

neobop · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Aug 2016, 10:57 am »

Quote from: andyr on 6 Aug 2016, 05:52 am

Your argument makes sense, Geary, in one sense only.

If the LPs you are listening to were recorded on analogue tape then, yes, digitising will lose something. But not many LPs, today, are recorded on analogue tape (Tacet LPs are, I believe) - so your point is moot.
Andy

What your saying might be true for you in a practical sense, but does not hold water as a logical argument. Even if some modern LP was digitally mastered, there is greater potential for degradation with additional AD/DA conversions on playback. This is beside the fact that the vast majority of records out there, were never digitally converted.

Not knowing what's available in electronic X-overs, I'm not condemning your choice, just don't make it seem more than it is.
neo